| Introduction
This interview was with Maudie Flake Edwards. Mrs. Edwards taught in the
Champaign Schools from1959 until 1984. She was a teacher at Booker T.
Washington School before and during desegregation and was then transferred
to Robeson Elementary School.
Tiera Campbell, a 9th grader at Central High School, conducted the
interview. She is one of three students who participated in this project
last year. She helped teach skills to 12 new students from Franklin Middle
School. All 15 students worked with WILL-AM 580 on an oral history project
documenting the actual desegregation of Champaign’s public elementary
schools in 1968. The students used parts of this interview for their
60-minute radio documentary, More Than a Bus Ride: Desegregating Champaign
Public Schools.
Tiera conducted the interview in Mrach, 2005 at Mrs. Edwards’ home in
Urbana, IL.
TIERA: Can you please state your full name?
MRS. EDWARDS: Maudie Flourine Flake Edwards.
TIERA: When and where were you – when were you born?
MRS. EDWARDS: September the 17th, 1918. When I said Maudie Flake – may I do
this – Edwards, I was married once and then my maiden name is Flake, is
Flake, ok?
TIERA: What was it like growing up in Pulaski, Illinois?
MRS. EDWARDS Pulaski was a – had a population of 500 people and it was – we
knew everybody. It was fun. There was one street that the black people lived
on and there were about eight streets where white people lived on. But the
one street that we lived on was all black but then there were other people
that did not have a sidewalk in our community and we had separate schools,
of course.
TIERA: What was it like for you being in separate schools? Did you?
MRS. EDWARDS In separate schools? We thought it was ok, you know, because
that’s what everybody else had done and we didn’t even think about even
going over there or even visiting. We never did visit their school and we
just thought it was something that was supposed to be – thought nothing of
it. But we do know that – we did hear talks about – we did not have the same
supplies, teaching materials that the other schools had. We would sometimes
get some of their leftovers that they would bring to us after they had used
them up.
TIERA: Was Pulaski segregated or integrated?
MRS. EDWARDS: Yeah they were – that’s what I was telling you that we had -
our school was on the westside and the white schools were on the eastside
and their school was a little larger than hours. There were only two rooms –
it was not a one-room schoolhouse, it was two rooms, first second third and
fourth, and then fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth. And my professor – I can
remember my first grade teacher. I thought that she was just excellent and
when I got into fifth grade my – this was a man and he liked music. And he
wanted – I tried to sing a little bit and he always wanted me to sing.
Picked up – have you ever heard of a potato bug that you pick?
TIERA: What did your parents do and do you have any brothers or sisters?
MRS. EDWARDS: My dad worked for Illinois Central. He was a railroad person,
worked long ago when they had to work on the tracks and they used to have
handcars that they would go on and go down the tracks and repair the
railroad tracks. And my mother was mostly staying home and sometimes
domestic. There were seven kids - I was the third child, five girls and two
boys. I had one brother that was handicapped.
TIERA: You went to an all black elementary school. What was it called?
MRS. EDWARDS: What was it called? The name of it was Banicer, named from
Benjamin Banneker, who was a black person. Benjamin Banneker – that was the
name of it.
TIERA: Do you ever miss being at that school or like are there any good
memories you have from that school?
MRS. EDWARDS: I’m sorry, I didn’t understand you.
TIERA: Do you ever miss going to the school and do you have any memories
from the school?
MRS. EDWARDS: The school has been gone a long, long, long time ago. In fact,
the grade school ended up with the kids integrating and some of them were
even bussed. But I can remember going back, maybe once to twice after I had
<inaudible> into high school. We went to Banneker until we were in eighth
grade and then we got a bus to Mounds - the high school.
TIERA: Describe your school for me.
MRS. EDWARDS: Is that grade school or high school? Grade school, first grade
– my first grade teacher was a beautiful black lady that I thought was the
prettiest woman I had ever seen. And I just – when I – my parents and she
allowed me to go to school before I was six years old and I would just
follow her around and watch her even – sometimes when she’d go to the
bathroom I’d wait for her to come out because I’d just – and I think that’s
one reason that I wanted to be a first grade teacher because she was a
wonderful first grade person – first grade teacher. And um, oh after I – we
had to walk to school – it wasn’t far, like about eight blocks. And my –
starting with fifth grade I guess is where I had a man teacher. And we had
to – when we finished eighth grade we had to take an exam in the county
building. They had to transport us to the county building and take our exam
and that was really frightening for us because we didn’t think we’d pass, we
didn’t think we’d – I didn’t. I’m always afraid of tests. And going into a
new situation was not good for us because we thought that that was not fair
to take us way - somewhere out of our neighborhood to give us a test. But we
did – that’s all we could do.
TIERA: Your high school was Douglas High School. Was it named after
Frederick Douglas?
MRS. EDWARDS: Yes it was.
TIERA: What was your high school like?
MRS. EDWARDS: We rode a bus twelve miles to high school in Mounds every day
– school day. We did not have lunch in the building. We had to go downtown
and buy some bologna…but something for lunch. Maybe candy, cookies, but we
had one hour for lunch so we’d walk downtown. We had – there were only five
teachers, including the principal, he taught. It was a two story building
and I know that we didn’t get the education that we should have had in that
school because it was just not enough time and not enough help. But we
didn’t know any better. I mean, they were doing the best they could. Still
separate, the white school was much, much bigger and of course some – they
had more teachers. I don’t know where our teachers came from and where they
got their education but they worked very hard with us and tried to give us
the best.
KIMBERLIE (Project co-director): Question – did you have um, a gym or – you
didn’t have a lunchroom…did you have bathrooms in the school?
MRS. EDWARDS: Yeah. They were in the school. We did have them inside. We did
not have to go outside for those. But we did – for grade school we went
outside for the bathroom, but no lunch, no lunchroom. Sometimes we would
bring our lunch. You know, we could bring it if we wanted to but we liked to
walk downtown and just have fun with the other kids. Kids came from – I
think it was three counties. It was not only Pulaski County. It was
Alexander County – and what was the other one? I don’t remember now but the
busses came in to bring us. I can remember when we first started we did not
have a regular school bus. A black guy had – I think he really probably made
this thing. It was – we called it Black MIRAR because it was black and I
think like – about seventeen or eighteen of us from my area – Pulaski – we
would ride Black MIRAR to school. And there were several busses, but um, of
course there was other kids that lived in Mounds too. < inaudible Ben
Roman?> was not very large.
TIERA: How did – were there other high schools closer by or were you not
allowed to go to these schools?
MRS. EDWARDS: Yeah, there were – like I said the white school was in the
city in Mounds and then there was another school that some of the kids –
cause I know my brother, of he was younger, he went to Mounds City – that is
a county <inaudible>. But they were still separated – there were only two
schools in each town – a black and a white. And they didn’t call it black
then, they called it colored - a colored school and the white school. And we
weren’t allowed to – naturally we weren’t allowed - we weren’t even allowed
to go visit. We weren’t – we didn’t go over there, had no reason to go.
TIERA: Tell me about your Bachelor’s and your Master’s degrees.
MRS. EDWARDS: Well, let me go back now to getting into college because my
parents had told me that they were not able to send me to college because
that was – it was going to be very expensive but all of my high school,
right? I was planning for college and my mother continued to say, “I don’t
know how you think you’re going to college because we can’t send you.” And I
can remember another black boy - whose dad was a mailman - he was headed for
college that day – the beginning of the school year. And I saw him going to
get the train and I cried because I could not go. And my mother says, “If
you want to go that badly we’ll find some way to send you the next quarter.”
They had quarters then. And I can remember she – they mortgaged part of the
little property that we had and she sent me to college. And I told her that
if she’d get me there I would work and all she’d – and then after she had
gotten me there I had a – I got a job. Well, she knew a lady that we could
not stay on the campus and the black kids had to stay in homes and this lady
that she knew – she let me stay at her house and she said that if I didn’t –
whenever I didn’t have the money well, just let it go until whenever I got
it I could pay her. So I got a job at a boys’ home, helping with the dishes
and cleaning the rooms and I worked for them until some of the boys got – I
didn’t like them because they were trying to be too flirty. And I left and
went and – I guess I must have talked to the nur – I know I did – the nurse.
I don’t know how she got the message but the nurse – she gave me a job as a
file clerk. And didn’t know how to file and I just messed her files up. Then
she told me – she say, “Maudie, I found – I don’t think you’re filing
right.” I was putting everything – A all in A’s, B’s – you know not
following the real way of filing. She taught me how to file and she let me
stay and I worked for her until I finished two years of college and I got a
two year certificate and then I went – I got a job teaching for two years
and after the two years – as I said I got a job and each summer – and I also
took night classes to get my Bachelor’s degree. I think you had another
question there – or at that part…I don’t know.
KIMBERLIE: I thought of a follow-up if you don’t mind. What do you think was
it about you that made you want to go to college even though your mom said
they couldn’t afford it. Why did you have that drive to go to college?
MRS. EDWARDS: I just – I just wanted – I loved my first grade teacher and I
wanted to be a first grade teacher. And I just – it was just was something
that I was determined that if I could just get to Carbondale I would be able
to make it. I’m the only one in my family that was a teacher. The rest of
them did not want to – you know, well I don’t know if they wanted to. They
found other things to do.
TIERA: Was it common or uncommon for black women to go to college back then?
MRS. EDWARDS: When I went to Carbondale there were 25 black students in that
whole school and most of them were from east St. Louis. I was the only one
from southern Illinois at that time and there was one – maybe two or three
from Cairo and one from Pulaski but most of them were from east St. Louis…25
out of the thousands of whites. In fact, I imagine that there had not been
any blacks there for too many years previously. I don’t know. But I know
that we were always pushed aside, we didn’t go to the football games, we had
our own Dunn Boy Society and we also had a black chorus. And they didn’t let
– of course I don’t know if we had anybody that could play but they – the
paid person for the course was two white people. The girl that played the
piano was white and the guy that directed was white and we had this chorus
that we sung. And that also – in fact I tell my nieces and nephews sometimes
I sung my way through school because my tuition was paid. That’s how I got
my tuition paid, by singing.
TIERA: Where in Illinois were you teaching when the Brown vs. Board of
Education decision came down?
MRS. EDWARDS: I did not get the first part of that.
TIERA: Where in Illinois were you teaching when the Brown vs. Board of
Education decision came down?
MRS. EDWARDS: In Illinois where was I? What was the year now – 60 what?
KIMBERLIE: 54.
TIERA: 54.
MRS. EDWARDS: 54. Oh I was getting ready – I guess I must have been in Ullin,
in Ullin, I must have been in Ullin, yeah. But I was still – we had a
segregated school there. I can remember when some of the – oh boy. In Ullin
what did they do? They’d send some kids over – we sort of – you know we’re
getting a little closer together in Ullin but it wasn’t – we never did go to
school together of course.
KIMBERLIE: Do you understand what she means? Do you have a follow-up?
TIERA: No, I don’t.
KIMBERLIE: Ok, when you said you didn’t get together, do you mean the white
and black schools? There were white and black schools?
MRS. EDWARDS: Oh still, yeah. Mhm.
TIERA: What did you think of that decision?
MRS. EDWARDS: What did I think of the decision? Really and truly – let’s
see, I’m trying to think. I’m trying – when you get me with the dates now –
you said 50…because I didn’t think it was a good idea at first. I really
didn’t because I was afraid that our kids were going to be left out – they
were not going to get the instructions and we – I thought that we could do a
better job teaching our children.
TIERA: When you came to Champaign in 1959 did you have any trouble finding a
place to live?
MRS. EDWARDS: I sure did. I sure did. We – they had – they told us that they
had some information at the Mellon building - for us to go and look on the
bulletin board for places and we – it was another girl and I – we were going
to live together – and we found one place. We went to this place – in fact
we called and this girl, she was St. Louis and she sort of talked like she
was white, like a white person, and the lady told us to come out. She was so
shocked when she saw us because we were black and she was very nice but she
thought that maybe we were white and she was looking for somebody to stay.
But we ended up staying with a black teacher. She had an upstairs room and
she kept roomers and there were some boys on one side and we didn’t like
that so we stayed there one year. After that we got an apartment over on
Washington Street, not too far from here. But we could not stay – there were
not apartments where we could stay as a black person that we knew of. And we
stayed there two years and then I bought this place. And this young lady
that was living with me then, she came to live with me here until she got
married. In fact, I had two other teachers that lived with me.
TIERA: How did you feel when the woman saw you and she was shocked that you
were black and not white?
MRS. EDWARDS: We were really – we left because I told Mayfield – her name
was Mayfield – I said, “See you sounded like you were white, now you got us
in trouble.” It didn’t bother us because we knew she was white but she did
not realize it until we had gotten there and it didn’t bother me because it
was too far out anyway. I didn’t have a car. Mayfield had one and it was
ok…we just went out there to see.
TIERA: What was Champaign like back in 1959?
MRS. EDWARDS: Champaign was just about like integration. We stayed in our
area. We didn’t – we did lots of things but we did them all – we didn’t –
like things are now where you have a party or something and you have
everybody invited. We stayed on the north end. We had our sororities but we
were still in our areas. Mhm.
TIERA: I’m getting ready to go to the desegregation questions.
KIMBERLIE: Unless you have a follow-up to that.
TIERA: No, not really. I wanted to ask her – I mean, is she still going to
continue. So are you going to be able to still continue? You still going to
be able to do the rest of the questions? Can we continue?
MRS. EDWARDS: Am I sounding like I cant make it? <laughs>
TIERA: You’re doing good.
KIMBERLIE: You’re stories are so great.
MRS. EDWARDS: You got another section? Let me see the section. Where were
you going to start?
TIERA: Down…right here.
MRS. EDWARDS: Ok. I can do these I think…let’s see. Yeah. Let’s go on. I
don’t know what I sound like but…
TIERA: You taught first grade at Booker T. Washington School in 1959. What
were you teaching?
MRS. EDWARDS: What was I teaching? I taught everything. I taught reading,
writing, spelling, math, even singing. I taught everything. They did have a
music teacher but we did lots of singing in our classroom and I of course –
as I said before we did lots of plays. We had a play every year and the kids
and I would write the play. I would have everybody in the play and we would
write it and I’d have a part for everybody. The ones that were very fluent
and the ones that were a little slow or did not want to be in the play. They
found a place – I had to find a place for each one of them. But we always
had a play and most of the time we would do our play and the classes would
come and see it.
TIERA: Do you ever wish you could go back to that time and-
MRS. EDWARDS: Go back to teaching first grade?
TIERA: Yeah, with the plays and stuff.
MRS. EDWARDS: Oh I love to do that. I would love that. I’ve done some things
at church but – I even have some of the plays that I’ve written that – I
still keep them and have done some of them over and over, yeah - Cinderella,
Sleeping Beauty, and then some that we just wrote from a book. I can
remember Willie the Skunk. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that story but
Willie the Skunk was in this family with skunks, but he was a bad little
skunk that never paid attention to anyone and was always going around
squirting people. And I had one little boy that was just – fit the purpose.
I think that’s the reason I wrote that story because that one little boy was
always – and he loved it. That was one of our best plays.
TIERA: Were the children bussed during the time you were teaching?
MRS. EDWARDS: Um, you mean at Robeson. I mean – Washington. When I first
started, no, no. It was all black when I first started – it was a
neighborhood school. The kids would come in from the neighborhood. No they
were not bussed when I first started at Washington. In fact, that’s when I
first moved to this city, was at Washington.
TIERA: What was Washington School like back then?
MRS. EDWARDS: Well, like I said it was all black. We had a black principal –
who was a wonderful person – Mrs. Wesley. And we had – to me it was great
because I had come from a smaller school – a smaller school district that
did not have as much as they had there. And I just thought that, “Ooh I got
all of this material and I can just do wonders with it.” The classes were
large – much larger than I expected.
KIMBERLIE: How many students?
MRS. EDWARDS: I’m sorry?
KIMBERLIE: How many students?
MRS. EDWARDS: 30, 32.
TIERA: Describe the students, teaching and staff administration.
MRS. EDWARDS: I’m sorry?
TIERA: Can you describe the students, teaching staff, and administration?
MRS. EDWARDS: The students…well the students – I guess they weren’t much
different from the students that I’ve taught. I think we had more
involvement with par – I know that we did - more involvement with the
parents. We had lots of good parents that would come and help with things
that we would want to do. In fact, I also liked to take my kids on field
trips and I can remember never having any trouble to get parents to go along
with me. The staff was great. We had to work harder. We had so many more
things to do then than we did maybe five or six years later. We had to do
almost everything. We finally got a music teacher – maybe the music teacher
was there when I got there…I don’t remember. But then like I said I like to
do my music – some of the music in the classroom. But the – we had our own
teachers lounge where we could go and have our lunch and communicate there
and find out what others were doing and it was great. To me it was real
great because I did not have that situation at home in Southern Illinois.
KIMBERLIE: Why did you say you had to work harder? Why – compared to other
teachers or?
MRS. EDWARDS: Well they had more material – we had certain tests that we had
to do. I don’t know – we just had so much more material. I think maybe I
thought I had to work harder and I don’t know – I’m sure that I worked very
hard in Southern Illinois because we had so – you know, not that much
material and more classes because in Southern Illinois I had third, fourth,
and fifth grade. But there were like maybe two or three in each grade – or
maybe five in one – a total of maybe 20, 23 kids but then you had – I don’t
know if I worked harder because I had to prepare lessons for each grade but
it seems that there were so many more things to do – I think it might have
been just me because I’m moving from one setting to another. I don’t know.
TIERA: What was the worst thing that happened to you while working at
Washington?
MRS. EDWARDS: The worst thing…I don’t remember any worst things. I really
don’t. I might think of something later but I don’t remember any.
TIERA: What was the best thing that happened to you while working at
Washington?
MRS. EDWARDS: I really enjoyed when we got the lab school from the
University of Illinois because they had lots – the government had given the
money to - for – we could do whatever we wanted to. We could plan – we could
go on trips. I could remember we went – they sent two of the teachers all
the way to Boston once to a conference and we – we just had so much material
and so many books and then we’d - we had two professors from the university
that came in to help us too. That was pro – that was one thing that I really
enjoyed.
TIERA: Did you enjoy your time teaching first grade at B.T. Washington?
KIMBERLIE: I’m sorry, I’m just going to – you know what? I just want to
interrupt if it’s ok. She’s talking about the lab school and I think you
have some questions on that – maybe go to those?
TIERA: Oh yeah, yeah, ok. What was the lab school at B.T. Washington and how
did they decide which children would be a part of this lab school?
MRS. EDWARDS: Oh for the lab school…no, I was just thinking of Project
Promise though because they selected the kids. They had to have a test for
Project Promise, you know the upper – the kids that had the best grades were
in Project Promise. But for the lab school, you’re asking how were they
selected? It was just a regular classroom, a regular classroom and the
professors that were helping us – that’s the way they wanted it.
KIMBERLIE: And what do you mean by like, a lab. Like, how was it different
from a regular class?
MRS. EDWARDS: The lab? We had all of this material, we had money to buy
whatever we wanted, they gave us a certain amount of money to buy books,
posters, or paper. We just had – just – we had everything that we wanted.
KIMBERLIE: And what were they – what were you teaching in the lab school?
MRS. EDWARDS: What were we teaching? The regular class. The regular class
but we just had more material.
TIERA: Project Promise came to Washington School in 1963. Was it a program
for Washington School only? What was it and how long did it last?
MRS. EDWARDS: It was at Washington. It was only for Washington and it lasted
about four years. What was one of the other questions?
TIERA: Um, what was it?
MRS. EDWARDS: They – those kids were tested, as I said before, and they had
to have a grade average of a B or above. And really to me as far as Project
Promise was concerned, it was a – sort of a way of integrating because we
had black and white kids at that time. And I can remember they sent me to
Lottie Switzer(?) with my first grade group and we sort of – the other
teacher that had a fir – we had two first grade classes. We had two – all of
the classes were two, one matching the other and the other teacher was at
Columbia and I was at Switzer and they would take the test scores from the
two teachers and matching those to see how we were doing and I don’t – I
really – I’m not sure exactly what they did with those grades but I know
that they were – they didn’t really tell us what they were doing but we sort
of knew that they were comparing the two teachers.
KIMBERLIE: I don’t know if you – I have a question for you. So you mean
black kids from Washington School were tested and then they were – they were
taken – and then they were-
TIERA: They tested a group of kids, black and white. There were white kids
too.
MRS. EDWARDS: But from a different school, right?
TIERA: Different schools. That’s right. Mhm. They were. They were from
different schools. The way I understood it they were from different schools.
Because I can remember I had one little white girl that was very, very smart
– that girl was from Washington School though. I’m almost sure…I think they
were all from Washington School. I don’t think they took them from other
schools. I don’t remember – I don’t think so. It was right there but they –
we had the top kids at Project Promise. I know I did.
TIERA: You were transferred to Robson Elementary School. Did you want to
leave Washington School?
MRS. EDWARDS: No, I really didn’t but – what did they call me? And I
wouldn’t accept the name…um, I was supposed to be some kind of a pilot or
something to go over there and teach those folks – those other teachers what
we had been doing in Project Promise. And I told them those men over there
they knew how to teach and I didn’t want – I didn’t do it. I just went over
there and taught the regular and did what I was supposed to do as a teacher.
Maybe – and then some of them did pick up on some of the stuff that we bad
been doing but like I said, we had money to buy and to use all kinds of
books that were necessary to me because – a better teacher.
TIERA: So you never got the chance to go back to Wa - teaching at Washington
School?
MRS. EDWARDS: No, no I didn’t. No I stayed there for 14 years. Mhm.
KIMBERLIE: At Robeson?
MRS. EDWARDS: Mhm, right. mhm.
TIERA: Why were you transferred to Robson School?
MRS. EDWARDS: Well that’s what they – that’s what that Project Promise I
believe was for, was to prepare us to go out and go to other schools and to
help the other teachers. I really believe that’s what it was. And they sent
all of us – well some of the teachers did not leave because at that time you
know, they were changing the schools around and kids were being bussed both
ways so I think it was also helping with the integration too.
TIERA: Where was the school located in comparison to Washington School?
MRS. EDWARDS: Oh, Robson School was in a – really it was built in a
cornfield. When I went out there it was – the guy that had his – let them
use quite of the cornfield and build a school and he – when he was plowing
his corn he would come up and – I took my class out once. In fact, I had his
two daughters in my classroom and we went out and he taught us about his
tractor and what it could do and let us – let the kids get on it but he
would drive right up almost to the school – it was so close. But it ended up
knocking over <inaudible> and there’s houses everywhere now but when I went
out there it was in a cornfield. In fact, across the street from the school
we would go out on fieldtrips and there was a weed patch that we’d go out
and collect bugs and cocoons and worms and stuff and bring back to the
classroom to study. That’s how wild it was out there.
TIERA: Were there any black teachers still at Washington School when you
transferred to Robson?
MRS. EDWARDS: Yes there was. You know, they split us up – they left – I
think they might have left three teachers there – black. And then they
brought – well it could have been more than that. They brought some of the
white teachers over or hired new teachers.
TIERA: Was the population at Robson school different from Washington School?
MRS. EDWARDS: Yes it was. It was mostly white because it was a lot of
walk-ins and there were no black people living out there at that time. I can
remember a kid – one little boy that was bussed from Washington - he was so
lost out there and I felt so sorry for him because he wanted to cry and
about time for the bus to leave you could not teach him anything. Well,
right after lunch he would stand at the window and watch for the bus because
he was afraid that he might be left out there in that area that he knew
nothing about. He’d stand on the playground and he’d just look around. I’d
watch him out there – he was just so lonesome to be so far away from home.
It really did bother him. Most of the kids – I don’t – I didn’t see any that
was really upset about leaving their parents – I mean being that far away
from home. He did not like it at all but he finally adjusted. But that was
not good for a lot of our kids to go that far away from home – they had
never been that far away – away from you know, the parents…that they
couldn’t walk home.
TIERA: How do your years of teaching with black and white schools have an
impact on you?
MRS. EDWARDS: As far as children were concerned I didn’t see any difference.
It was children. I really – I cant even answer that as far as the black or
the white because they were children.
TIERA: Were there ever times that you just wanted to quit your teaching
career because of a white parent and their comments?
MRS. EDWARDS: Read that again. I’m sorry.
TIERA: Were there ever times when you just wanted to quit your teaching
career because of a white parent and their comments?
MRS. EDWARDS: No, no. No I always had good answers for my white parents. I
remember one parent, they came – she had moved into the area – she’d moved I
don’t know from where, and the principal had given me her son and she of
course didn’t know I was black. And when she came down – how she was so
upset – she was so upset that I was a black – she just turned – her color
changed. She didn’t know what to say and she really didn’t want him in there
but there was nothing – the principal was with her, I was there, and she was
- really didn’t – she had no idea how this job was going to react to me. And
of course the child was afraid. The child sat there and she looked at me
like she thought I was an animal or something. She followed – her eyes
followed me around because they had not lived in the area long and they
probably had not – maybe the child hadn’t ever been that close to a black
person. And I can remember – once – I don’t know if I – the little – the guy
was – a little black boy was going to the restroom – we had a restroom in
the class and she was sitting – she always liked to sit sort of away from
everybody, because I let them move their chairs where they wanted to, and
this little black boy came back and she said to him, “You’s a nigger.”
<laughs> And I hear her. And he didn’t know what the word nigro – nigger
was. I don’t believe he did. But she had been taught that that’s what we
were. And he just went on in the restroom and came on out and so when he
came out I came over to her and I said, “Would you come to the restroom with
me? I want to talk with you.” And she came and she didn’t know what she had
done wrong – I don’t believe…I don’t know. But I said, “You never, never,
never let me hear you say that word anymore because that’s not a good word.”
I said, “Did you know that was a bad word?” And tears started running down.
She was so unhappy she cried and cried. I said, “Now wipe your eyes, but
please don’t ever say that word anymore in the classroom because that’s not
nice.” But she didn’t know because she’s heard that at time.
KIMBERLIE: Did she ever use the word again?
MRS. EDWARDS: No. No, I never heard it – no. Never. None of the kids. In
fact, I never heard that before myself. You know in that day in time they
weren’t using that word. But she had just moved – I don’t know but they came
from the south I know and she probably had never had any contact with any
black kids.
TIERA: Um, how was your relationship with that girl - like, with this little
girl. Did it grow to get better or-
MRS. EDWARDS: The little girl that used that word? Oh. She was a – she was a
nice little girl but she was a really shy – she was shy with me. I can
remember that I did put her in a play and she loved being in a play and she
got to be a very good actress in plays and she enjoyed plays a lot. But she
was always a little shy. But that was one thing – that – I could see that
was a good way to involve her with the class. Mhm.
TIERA: What was the main reason you stayed in the school system for so long?
MRS. EDWARDS: I liked to teach. I loved to teach first grade. They were
wonderful kids who – take them – at the time that I first started teaching
first graders did not know very much of anything and you could see how they
grew every day. They were so happy that they could read two sentences but of
course after I taught for a while first graders came to me reading. You
know, they learned how to read using the TV and the parents are helping them
but when I first started teaching first grade it was – I enjoyed it. I just
enjoyed first grade kids because they could say and do so many funny things
and I liked to see them in plays and acting out and they thought that – some
of them would forget and call me their mother and grandma, that kind of
stuff because they knew that Mrs. Edwards was on their side all the time.
TIERA: Was there ever any riots or anything of that sort during your
teaching career?
MRS. EDWARDS: Uh, you said riot? There was not a riot but there was a
strike. There was a strike before we integrated. In fact, I was – that was
NEA and IEA and we were working on that and we struck. Although I was not
for the strike, I wanted them to work it out and not be – get – do any real
vicious things. And they didn’t. It didn’t last long.
KIMBERLIE: What was the strike about?
MRS. EDWARDS: Integration.
KIMBERLIE: You could do some follow-ups with that. They were striking about
integration. Ok I’ll help you out. Um, tell me more about that.
MRS. EDWARDS: About the strike?
TIERA: Or about yeah, the reasons and what people were saying.
MRS. EDWARDS: Well, we were – we just wanted to integrate and they didn’t –
the school board – we were against the school board and the things that they
had decided to do. I don’t know that – there was no real vicious thing about
it. The teachers were – they went along – well I don’t know if they really
wanted it but we didn’t – it wasn’t anything bad. And it didn’t last long. I
can remember that I did not cross the picket line. I don’t mean – I did not
– I did come in one day and they were uh – no that wasn’t, that wasn’t –
what was it that we were doing that I crossed the picket line? I don’t know
I can’t remember.
TIERA: Were the teachers striking because they supported integration or
because they were against it?
MRS. EDWARDS: They were – they were – they wanted to integrate. Yeah, mhm.
TIERA: What’s the most thing you would like to look back and change the most
about this time? In your teaching career…
MRS. EDWARDS: Ok, you’re going to have to say that again.
TIERA: What would you like to look back most – look back on most and change
during your teaching career?
MRS. EDWARDS: Change? I don’t know. I think the school system has done a
real good job of teaching all children the same. I don’t know of anything –
any changes really. Integrated schools – I know that – I don’t know if I’d
want to teach now because kids can do and say and get by with so many things
now that I would not go along with. And they would be – the principal or
somebody – they would support them in what they did…then I would not go
along with(?)
TIERA: Can we stop for a second? Because I just thought about something.
KIMBERLIE: Yeah.
TIERA: My mom was expecting to pick me up at the studio. She didn’t know
that we would be interviewing her at her house. So she’s going to pick me up
at the studio but I’m not going to be there.
KIMBERLIE: Ok, let’s call real quick…um…shoot. We’re almost done actually,
but we just have a few more. Um…ok yeah…Ok, whenever you’re ready.
TIERA: What did you think of the way the schools-
KIMBERLIE: I’m sorry, what did I do? Ok.
TIERA: What did you think of the way the schools were desegregated in
Champaign?
MRS. EDWARDS: What did I…well, you mean the way they were segregated?
TIERA: Desegregated.
MRS. EDWARDS: Desegregated. I thought it was ok. There was nothing I could
do about it. They had it decided the way they wanted to do it – we had
nothing to do with it. It was alright, you know. I didn’t – I just did what
they told me to do. Mhm.
TIERA: Um, I’ll do the next one and then a follow-up(?). What is your
opinion about bussing black students for desegregation?
MRS. EDWARDS: Well, I thought that that’s the only way they could do it
because they didn’t – there was no kids living in the neighborhood and if
they wanted to desegregate, that’s what they had to do. I – at first –
really, as I told you before, really was not for it. I didn’t want to see
those kids going over there into that area and not doing their best because
they had not ever been away from home and away from – that far away from
home. I really did not like it myself. I didn’t really want to go over
there. I thought that we could do a better job teaching our children.
KIMBERLIE: Why do you think that?
MRS. EDWARDS: Why did I think – because I understood the children. The white
people did not understand our ways. Most of the time they didn’t understand
their language – some of the language that they used – they didn’t
understand them. Um, and – that’s the whole thing. I think that the white
teachers just did not understand and they really tried hard and they wanted
to help but - it was something that needed to be done and I’m glad it – you
know, we did but I hated to see the kids pushed into something that they did
not know anything about or going into a neighborhood and learning how to get
along with the kids and understand the teacher and so many times frightened
about things or did not understand what they were saying.
KIMBERLIE: Do you remember any stories like, of white teachers trying but
not getting it?
MRS. EDWARDS: I’m sorry…
TIERA: Do remember any stories of white teachers trying to work with black
kids but not getting it? You said they tried but they just didn’t get it.
MRS. EDWARDS: I know some of the teachers – well I’m trying to think of one
instance – what was it that this girl…well that was with – that was a
teacher’s conference with parents…and this girl came to me and asked me –
said she had not talked with a black parent that – you know, on a one-to-one
basis like that and what questions I thought that she should ask and what
should she not ask because she was a little hesitant about the teacher
conference.
TIERA: Um, how do you think the children reacted once they were put together
in the same schools?
MRS. EDWARDS: I don’t think that it took very long for them to really get
used to each other. Kids are – you know kids get along. I can remember one
little boy that – very slow you know, he didn’t – really didn’t put forth
any effort. He really didn’t care a thing about school but he met a white
boy over there at Robson school that they just loved each other. After the
fourth or fifth day it seemed they were friends and he really didn’t want to
go home at night. I remember one time I was driving home and I saw him
walking down the street with this boy and I said, “Does your mother know
you’re staying over?” And he said, “No, she doesn’t.” I said, “Well you
better get in the car with me because you cant get home in time.” And he
said, “Well his mother said she would take me home,” I said, “But you should
call her,” and I took him home. But he wanted to stay over you know and play
with him and they were very good friends. And that took maybe four weeks and
I just wonder now if they’re still friends.
TIERA: Um, were most people for it or were they against it?
MRS. EDWARDS: Really I did not come in contact with anybody that did not
want it. I really didn’t. I don’t remember any parent – I got along with
both parents, the black and the white, and – in fact, after I was at Robson
for a while I got more kids than I could handle. You know, my class was
always full.
TIERA: Did you agree with making Washington School a magnet school?
MRS. EDWARDS: I think it was good. They had the money to bring in more
material and select kids that they thought would really do well there. I
don’t see anything – I didn’t see anything wrong with it. I thought it was
good. I did not work there.
KIMBERLIE: What did you tell your students when they were being tested for
project promise? How did you explain it to them?
MRS. EDWARDS: When they were being tested? Now we did not do too much of the
testing. It seemed like to me the parents were notified but we didn’t do
much of the testing. And in fact, I’m not sure if they really knew what were
being tested for. I don’t think they were. They just tested them and pulled
out the grades - the ones that had the higher grades.
TIERA: And then they went – the ones that had higher grades then went to
different schools?
MRS. EDWARDS: The went to the person that ran Project Promise.
TIERA: Did they stay at Washington School while they were in Project
Promise?
MRS. EDWARDS: No, we weren’t – there was some schools – I mean some classes
at different schools, if I remember correctly…Project Promise…yeah. Well,
maybe not. But Project Promise was something – I think it was – well I wont
say that but I know that they got money and they got – had good tests and
the kids that did well – but really and truly maybe most of them did stay at
Washington School. Mhm.
TIERA: Do you have any more follow-ups? I have one more question if you
don’t mind. How did the population of Washington change when it became a
magnet school?
MRS. EDWARDS: Now see I don’t know too much about the magnet school because
I was not there. Um, but – now the magnet school – I’m trying to think how
were they selected. The parents decided if they wanted their kids to come
over. They weren’t – they did not tell them to come over, they decided to
come over. I think that’s the way it was. And of course the white – the
black parents too, if they wanted them there.
TIERA: And the cross-bussing was the white kids that went to Washington got
bussed?
MRS. EDWARDS: I’m sorry?
TIERA: The white kids that went to Washington got bussed? That’s how it was
cross-bussed – otherwise it was black kids being bussed south and…
MRS. EDWARDS: Right, right. Right, right. Mhm. I think that’s correct. I’m
not sure but I think that’s correct. Mhm.
KIMBERLIE: Anything else? Tiera, anything else? Anything else you want to
tell us that we didn’t ask you?
MRS. EDWARDS: No, I don’t think so. I hope that I have done what you all was
looking for because some of the stuff I can’t remember. For instance, like
you say the magnet school – cause I didn’t have anything to do with the
magnet school.
TIERA: Thank you.
KIMBERLIE: This was great. There’s one-
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