| Introduction
This interview was with Dereke Clements. Mr. Clements was a student at
Booker T. Washington School when it was a segregated neighborhood school. He
was bused to Lottie Switzer School during desegregation and attended
Centennial High School. He is a Realty Marketing Director for ECON, Inc. and
a musical/ concert producer who lives with his wife, Selita, in Atlanta.
Charnise Whittaker, a 6th grader at Franklin Middle School, conducted the
interview. Charnise is one of 12 Franklin Middle School students and two
Central High School students (graduates of last year’s radio program)
working with WILL-AM 580 on an oral history project documenting the actual
desegregation of Champaign’s public elementary schools in 1968. The students
used parts of this interview for their 60-minute radio documentary, More
Than a Bus Ride: Desegregating Champaign Public Schools.
Charnise conducted the interview over the telephone on March 21, 2005, at
the WILL-AM 580 studio, 300 N. Goodwin Ave. in Urbana, IL.
CHARNISE: Hi Mr. Clements.
MR. CLEMENTS: Hi, how are you doing Charnise?
CHARNISE: This is Charnise Wittaker from WILL radio documentary.
MR. CLEMENTS: Ok.
CHARNISE: Uh, how are you today?
MR. CLEMENTS: I’m doing fine, how are you doing?
CHARNISE: Good. Um, can you please state your full name?
MR. CLEMENTS: Dereke Clements. Do you want a spelling?
CHARNISE: Huh?
MR. CLEMENTS: You don’t need a spelling do you?
CHARNISE: Nah uh.
MR. CLEMENTS: Ok.
CHARNISE: Do we have your permission to record this interview for us in our
radio documentary and to put it on the website that we are making for the
radio documentary?
MR. CLEMENTS: Yes, you have my permission.
CHARNISE: Um, thank you so much. What do you do for a living?
MR. CLEMENTS: I’m a producer. I’m a musical producer and also a concert
promoter.
CHARNISE: Uh, is it hard?
MR. CLEMENTS: Um, it’s very interesting and a lot of hard work. Definitely.
CHARNISE: Do you meet a lot of new people?
MR. CLEMENTS: I meet a lot of people, a lot of artists and it’s very
challenging work but it’s very rewarding.
CHARNISE: Oh, interesting. What year was you born?
MR. CLEMENTS: I was born in 1955.
CHARNISE: Uh, do you have a college degree and if so where from?
MR. CLEMENTS: No, I don’t have a college degree but I did attend MacAlester
College in St. Paul, Minnesota and I also attended the University of
Illinois for two years.
CHARNISE: How long did you – well how long was you in St. – Collins?
MR. CLEMENTS: In MacAlester College in St. Paul? I was there for one summer.
CHARNISE: : Oh.
MR. CLEMENTS: I did summer school there.
CHARNISE: A teacher?
MR. CLEMENTS: No no no no no. I was a student!
CHARNISE: Oh.
MR. CLEMENTS: I was a student.
CHARNISE: How did you end up in Atlanta after growing up in Champaign?
MR. CLEMENTS: Um, well originally I left Champaign, IL in 1977. I was
working as a camera man/cinematographer for WICB television for 2 ½ years
and previously before that I was at WPGU radio station. So in 1977 I left
and moved to Los Angeles, California, where I began my professional career
in radio broadcasting. And then from there – I stayed out there for almost
20 years and then I moved back to the Atlanta area in 1995 to be closer to
my family in Champaign and also – it was a change of pace for me. My
children were now grown.
CHARNISE: Um, I have a question for this one. When you – when - you said
that you have stories about your family when they was in the south – they
had got ranned out of the town by white people?
MR. CLEMENTS: Mhm.
CHARNISE: And what made you move to Atlanta in the south after your family
got ran out of the town?
MR. CLEMENTS: Well, it wasn’t just that my particular family was ran out of
Atlanta – that was just a little misconstrued. There were many – growing up
as a young black boy, you heard stories – we would listen in the other – the
children would be in the other rooms and we weren’t always allowed to be in
the face of our parents while they were talking or having social time but we
would listen as kids, very intensely in the other room – sometimes you know,
with our ears to the walls or either – you know, we’d be right on the other
side of the door opening. So growing up I would hear a lot of stories about
people’s fathers or grandfathers or entire families having to flee
Mississippi or Alabama or Georgia to leave before someone was killed –
either hung or shot or something like that. So my particular family – I
don’t know that my family had to flee from Georgia but I heard a lot of
stories growing up as a young black boy. But me moving back to the Atlanta
area – things have changed in the area that I – my wife and I own a house in
Stone Mountain – blacks were not allowed there. It happened to be the base
of the Klu Klux Klan for many many years. That’s why Martin Luther King,
when he delivered his famous speech, he talks about children of all colors
you know, holding hands and walking in brotherhood and fraternity and then
he mentions, “From the foothills of Stone Mountain,” because that happened
to be one of the headquarter bases of the Klu Klux Klan but things have
changed now and the Atlanta area is a lot more open for African Americans.
It’s actually Chocolate City. Washington D.C.’s a Chocolate City but Atlanta
certainly is a Chocolate City. It’s heavily populated with African Americans
so I moved here because the property prices are much more affordable and
it’s a fairly nice lifestyle to live once you get accustomed to it. But it’s
still the dirty south – that’s why they call it the dirty dirty south – and
there’s a high degree of racial prejudice that runs amongst the – the
consciousness I would say, not the general population but the consciousness.
But I moved here for that reason.
CHARNISE: Oh. Did you come from a close family? What kind of stories do you
remember growing up in from your families?
MR. CLEMENTS: Yeah I grew up with a pretty close family. I grew up with my
mother – my father was gone, they had divorced – but I grew up with some
beautiful father figures: my grandfather, my uncles – I had a couple of
uncles – I had another uncle who would come down from Chicago and he was a
musician – Uncle Arthur – and so I had a welt/wealth(?) of family and
community members as well. Growing up in the early 60s and uh, we had a – it
was an extension of the African based families where it took a community to
raise a child so everyone in your immediate community knew you. You know,
the different neighbors – they knew you, they knew your mom, they knew your
father, they knew your grandmother, your grandfather and they would watch
over you and sometimes discipline you verbally – and every once in a while
it might be a little physical something. You know, if you happened to be
cutting up – maybe throwing rocks at their house or something like that you
never know what you got. But everybody watched out after you. And you asked
me about some of the stories? Like what type of stories?
CHARNISE: Uh…schools.
MR. CLEMENTS: Oh ok well, now I remember as a young – as a youngster growing
up and we would listen to the old folks talk and they would primarily talk
about how it was down south. I remember hearing a lot of stories about a lot
of black men being hung from Mississippi to Alabama to Georgia…Tennessee…uh
– I would hear the – generally the men would talk about these things, you
know, some of the – my uncles or grandparents, my grandfather or some of the
older men would be in the other rooms and they would talk. Or maybe at the
barber shop – you’d heard a lot of stories at the barber shop and some of
those stories would be of how people had to change their lives, drop an ‘s’
off of their names or take an ‘e’ off of their name or you know, move to
another area of – to another state. We would hear about those, we heard
about the lynchings and we heard about the prejudice that was going on
amongst the work force and how difficult it was. But I remember a lot of the
happy times growing up as a youngster because my grandmother and grandfather
taught me how to farm and a lot of African Americans in the Champaign-Urbana
area did not own farmland. Farmland was owned primarily by white people but
we did have – but a lot of the black families – they had yards and they had
gardens in their yard. So my grandmother and grandfather, who were farmers
as well, they were entrepreneurs as well but they always had a garden and
they taught me the basics of digging gardens, planting seeds during the
spring, weeding them, hoeing them, and growing the crops. And of course they
would give some of their vegetables and tomatoes – and some fruits – to the
family members around in the community. So those are some of my real happy
moments – learning those type of things. I didn’t like digging a garden – I
hated it, definitely. But still as a grown man now, I’m so thankful for
that. We had a lot of great times because you know we had to build our own
toys and stuff and we had to have a great imagination for doing different
things but, yeah – I had a beautiful childhood and my mother raised us
extremely well. She was a very literate black single parent who was a
voracious reader – her name is Olla(?) - and Mama read each and every day so
seeing your mother read each and every day you emulate that as a child and
so you pick up that pattern and I think this is one of the things that stuck
in all of her kids mind is that reading is a necessity – an order to a
higher and much more fulfilling education. This I think was one of my
happiest things because I’m a journalist now and I love to write – I’m a
journalist and a writer and I thank my mother for that because I used to
always see her read and write each and every day. So those are some of the
stories that I remember.
CHARNISE: As you was growing up listening to this was it kind of scaring
you?
MR. CLEMENTS: Uh, yes it did cause you were as a younger you’re in the
moment, you know and it’s like, that’s a reality. So of course you’re kind
of a little afraid of the things that had gone on because - but you don’t
have any control over those things so you just accept them as a normal part
of society. You’re not - as a normal individual, as a child growing up. You
don’t realize the significance until you get a little bit older and actually
read more of the history and then you happen to realize, wow, you were there
during that historic time of the civil rights movement, you heard that
Martin Luther King was doing this, you heard about the students, you know,
being bussed to hear and there, you heard about the bombing of the four
little girls down in Birmingham, Alabama – that was very tragic and of
course one of the most tragic things for us growing up in Champaign,
Illinois. I don’t know whether many people have expressed it but the killing
of Emmett Till because many of the families from Champaign, Illinois – we
uh, some of us lived in Chicago at one particular point or time but Chicago
was just right next door – it’d only take us about 2 ½ hours to go up to
Chicago. You might have a family up there or you may have lived up there.
And so when the Emmett Till killing happened and those horrible pictures
were released – you know, because the mother wanted to show the world just
how battered and mangled her child had been – that really touched a lot of
young African Americans in Champaign, Illinois. I’m sure it’s psychological
– I don’t know about a scar – but it’s something that was definitely – it
was an indelible impression upon our minds, even to this very day,
especially when we relive those documentaries that we see on television - we
were right next door. So yeah, it was a little bit scary growing up during
those times but it was a part of reality and – sitting in the back of the
bus happened in Champaign just as well as it did down in Mississippi. I
remember growing up as a youngster and – with me and my mother – and
sometimes the kids – we’d get on the bus, we went to the back of the bus. I
never questioned – well I did question it – but it was a reality back then
growing up as a small child. It was like, “Well, we’re supposed to sit in
the back of the bus. The white folks normally sit in the front. You don’t
have white folks who come back in the back ever and this is where we sit.”
So with me questioning it – you just question as a child but you’re just
told, “Hush up,” and you don’t really delve into it because we were told –
back then during those days it was like, “Be quiet, shut up, don’t ask
questions.” That’s the way you were raised kinda like – back then but it was
just a part of reality. We had segregation during those years just as well
as they did down south only it was in a more – probably a little more
mild-mannered setting. But yes there was segregation-
CHARNISE: So back then was it the law?
MR. CLEMENTS: Excuse me?
CHARNISE: So back then was it the law?
MR. CLEMENTS: Was it the law – it was the law, yes. Yeah, there were many
laws that were still on the books regarding what black people could do,
where they could go, where they could not go, but up north it was a little
more liberal. It was a little more leniency and it wasn’t – it wasn’t the
same as down south but it – but prejudice and segregation is the same
everywhere.
CHARNISE: Was it the law about – I was trying to say was it the law about
sitting in the back seat? In the back of the bus?
MR. CLEMENTS: I don’t know whether it was a law in the state of Illinois or
in Cham – or in the county of – Champaign County. I’d have – you’d have to
look up the records then but it was the law that in many states that blacks
could not be in certain buildings or that they could not partake in certain
things and it may have been that they could not ride in the same section of
a public transportation with whites. I don’t know. That’s very interesting
for someone to research and find out – exactly what were – what was on the
books. We called them the Jim Crow laws.
CHARNISE: Ok, now can we move on so we can get on?
MR. CLEMENTS: Yes ma’am.
MR. CLEMENTS: Booker T. Washington school was your neighborhood school,
right?
MR. CLEMENTS: Mhm, yes.
CHARNISE: How many years did you go to this school?
MR. CLEMENTS: I went there for three years. I was there kindergarten, first
– actually almost four. Kindergarten, first, second, and in third and then
the third year of me being there – that’s when the integration took place in
terms of me and the children of my age being tested to be chosen to go to
the white schools where black children had not gone before. So I think it
was in my – I think it was in my – grade four that I moved over to Lottie
Switzer school over on Prospect Avenue. That’s where the white kids went to
– that was one of the schools where it was exclusively white.
CHARNISE: Ok we’ll get to Lottie Switzer later.
MR. CLEMENTS: Ok.
CHARNISE: Describe what Washington School was like back then.
MR. CLEMENTS: Washington School was an all black school. You had black
teachers, you had black cooks, you had the black principal – it was just as
though you were – it was just a segregated school. You didn’t think of
segregation – “Oh I’m going to this segregated school,” – it was just – it
was a fact of life that, well this school was in the heart of the black
community on the south side of – on the north side of Champaign and this is
where the black people lived. The black people lived on the opposite side –
on the other side of the tracks. That’s where mostly all the black people
lived. You couldn’t live anywhere else and so you knew in the black
neighborhood – over here, by Burch Village and by Douglas Park – this –
Douglas Park didn’t used to be there yet but it was later named Douglas Park
– but anyhow, this was one of the black schools and everybody went there -
black teachers and everybody. It was very nice. We had a lot of fun because
as a child growing up you know you just go to school and you go out on the
playground, you have fun, you eat your lunch, you try to do well in school
because believe it or not a lot of the parents in Champaign-Urbana were
highly literate and they were educationally conscious because in our
associations and in our parents’ associations with the churches - many of
the churches were educationally oriented. You know, as black families
growing up in Champaign-Urbana you had the University of Illinois and it
wasn’t down south so you had a lot of parents – whether they were single
family parents or the nuclear family- you know a mother and father with the
kids – a lot of the parents got on our case about doing well in school
because we had our neighbors you know and maybe your neighbors kids were
doing a little bit better but it was – during that early period it was
education that was at the forefront of the African American family
consciousness. That in order for your kids to be better and to live a better
life, a better existence than you did as a parent growing up in the
turbulent of the 40s and 50s and now in the 60s – the 60s were tumultuous.
The 60s were not a great time for African American families but in order for
your children to better themselves education was at the forefront. And so a
lot of the parents in Champaign-Urbana kind of pushed their kids to make
sure that they weren’t total cut-ups but that they went to school and were
going to do better. Just like the – I don’t even like to say the ‘American
Dream’ because that is really a farce. You know, but basically you want your
kids to do better and that’s the way our parents did for us.
CHARNISE: As this stuff was going on was you wondering about segregation?
MR. CLEMENTS: Excuse me?
CHARNISE: As this stuff was going on about segregation was you wondering
like what did it mean or why was they doing it?
MR. CLEMENTS: Yeah, I always wondered because I can remember as a child
growing up that we did ride on the back of the bus – I would question that.
When it came to water fountains – drinking out of water fountains – I don’t
remember seeing signs in Champaign that said “Colored Only.” They probably
did have them but I don’t remember that. I just remember that if you did get
some water from some of the drinking fountains you had to hurry up and get
it. You know, and if there was a white person there they went first and if
you were in a store and there were two or three black people and a white
person walked in, that white person would be waited on first. You know, or
the person behind the counter would say, “Well excuse me ma’am can I help
you?” And that would – you know and as a child you would say, “Well wait a
minute we were here first!” You know and then your Mama would yank your
coattail or something and tell you, “Hush up!” Those type of things I would
question so when those things were going on I did question them because it
was funny – it wasn’t funny I mean it was serious but for me the answers
were never given. Grown people and the parents they didn’t have to explain
to us. Now one thing I do remember – and I won’t go off on a tangent on here
– is my grandfather worked for the railroad – Jesse Clements – he worked for
the Pacific Union Railroad for 43 years and I remember sometimes being
allowed to walk to work with Papa but I could never come inside where he
worked. Every once in a while he’d take me there for just a brief period of
time to go in. But I remember walking around and going different places in
Champaign-Urbana with my grandfather and he was a very well-respected
gentleman – I never knew that later on he was a Masonic Brother but later –
but going around during those early times when we would meet white men –
they would call my grandfather ‘Boy.’ And that would piss me off to the max
– I mean a little child, I’m looking, “This is my Papa!” You know, and I’d
say, “He ain’t no boy!” And you know, a child just tells the truth straight
out but you’d meet a white – I’d be in the presence of my grandfather and
then sometimes older white men and they’d say, “Hey Jesse, how you doing?”
and, “Boy – so and so – and I tell you, Boy,” and for me I’d holler out you
know, “Hey my Papa ain’t no boy!” and my grandfather would like nudge me or
hit me and tell me, “Hush up!” When Papa said hush up, you hushed up. You
know what I’m saying? You get that little eye.
CHARNISE: Well that was amazing you said all that.
MR. CLEMENTS: Right, right. So-
CHARNISE: How did you get along with your teachers?
MR. CLEMENTS: Um, it was a mixed bag of nuts with the teachers because as a
youngster when we were first integrated into the school systems with white
students, the white teachers had extremely low expectations of black
students. You could feel that they did not have a closeness with us and many
of them it was very aggravating for them to teach us. Some of them were –
they had hearts and they made friendships as teachers will but there were
many of them that could’ve cared less and did not give you very much
sensitivity in terms of the connection with students and teachers so it was
kind of hard. Sometimes you knew you were in a class with a teacher that
just really did not like you, especially if you were a young black male.
Young black males – I think we got the brunt of it. We were treated
extremely difficult and then again you would have some teachers who were
fantastic – white teachers who were just – you know really cared about you.
So it was a mixed bag of nuts.
CHARNISE: Do you have a story to reveal that?
MR. CLEMENTS: Do I have what?
CHARNISE: A story to reveal to that what you just told me?
MR. CLEMENTS: Yes I remember one teacher – and this was my Spanish teacher
later on – I got Spanish very early and he didn’t – I had French at first
and this teacher – Mr. Pool – he didn’t want to teach black kids at all. I
mean he was just – you could just tell it you know, because with other
students in the class he took the time, he’s speaking all nice and
everything and he’s giving explanations and stuff, and then when it comes to
one of us black students asking questions it was cut and dry and quick and
this and that. I got out of that class and I said, “Listen, I can’t deal
with this.” I went to Spanish. And then I had another white teacher – this
teacher was – he was about the same but he was a little more tolerant and in
terms of just the way he wanted to do this – I remember when we were given
names – you know, my name is Derek. Derek does not translate into Spanish
like a Joe – Jose or an Ann – Ana – you know or something like that. So in
terms of the names he just gave me the name Diego. You know, and I said,
“That’s not my name, Diego,” because I knew Diego was too close to ‘Diablo’
– Diablo is the devil, Satan and Diego is a derivative of a negative name.
And so I kept telling him, “No, my name is not Diego.” He said, “Well that’s
the name I’m giving you.” It was those kinds of little tussle back and forth
things. But um, that was just one of the stories.
CHARNISE: Do you have um, any stories to tell about your teachers at
Washington?
MR. CLEMENTS: At Washington? Yes, I had a wonderful time at Washington
because I remember teachers there – Ms. Suggs, I remember she later on
became the principal, I remember Ms. Teresa Johnson, who I fell in love with
– you know you have your little crushes on your teachers and stuff – she was
always a wonderful teacher and took the time to give you as much information
and to nurture you as a black – young black man to get the best information
and education that you could. And of course these black teachers lived in
our community. We knew where they lived because of course they couldn’t live
anywhere else. So you know Ms. Johnson lived over here, Ms. Suggs lived down
here, you know now Ms. Suggs who was a teacher – later on she became the
principal, she had a son who actually went to the school. So he was my age
so you know of course we had to be nice all the time you know because the
teachers in the sch - in Washington lived right in the community so they
knew your momma. So you couldn’t cut-up too much. But we had – I had great
memories of Booker T. Washington – going to school there. It was wonderful
because you didn’t have the dissention there, you didn’t have the racial
prejudice because it was segregated.
CHARNISE: Yeah, um…do you have any sad or difficult memories at Washington
School?
MR. CLEMENTS: Any sad memories at Washington?
CHARNISE: Yeah like when you laughed before you went to-
MR. CLEMENTS: Well I remember when we were tested that wasn’t that happy of
a moment because as a youngster you’re told that you’re going to be taken
and you’re going to be put over into the white schools and of course I can’t
say everything that was white back then was not a good feeling but it was an
uneasy feeling because it’s like, “Yeah…so I gotta leave all my friends over
here…and I have to go to the whit school with white kids and they don’t like
me and I see what goes on TV and I see what they’re doing to the people in
Selma and the riots and I see what – how they’re treating people on the bus
with the water hoses and the dogs sickin em on them and a lot of this
stuff’s happening down south,” but the feeling that you get is like, “Well
I’m going to be bussed to this strange school with white kids – are they
going to – you know, are we going to get along?” So when the testing came
about and some of the students from the University of Illinois came in to
help with the testing of the black kids at the Washington School it wasn’t
the happiest of moments. And in terms of me going there, any major
difficulties - I myself did not have any major difficulties because my
mother had her house, which was right on the other side of the park where
the school was and so we were like – I could look out of my bedroom window
and see my school. So I didn’t get to cut-up that much if you know what I
mean?
CHARNISE: Uh, who was doing the testing?
MR. CLEMENTS: Um the school system – the Champaign-Urbana school system was
doing the testing but my recollection – and I did speak with my mother about
this – there was an association with the University of Illinois because the
University of Illinois did a lot of testing and so I remember some of the
white students – the young white students coming to Washington School and
helping to administer some of the tests that were going on during that time
and basically what they were doing is they were finding young black kids
that could get along or who were some of the quote “cream of the crop” that
could best – that kind of acted like or could assimilate – and that’s the
key word - these young African American males and females who could
assimilate into the white schools without any disruption. That was the basis
of it because during those turbulent times white folks just did not want any
confrontation, they didn’t want any rioting, they didn’t want any dissention
or anything like that. So not only was it a thing to test the young black
kids to see what their so called ‘aptitude level’ is but also how their
personality and demeanor is, whether or not they would get to go to Switzer
school to sit in the classes with the white students. So…that’s my take on
it.
CHARNISE: Ok. In about third or fourth grade you and other students were
tested, right? What was the testing about and who was doing it? After
getting tested did you like the school?
MR. CLEMENTS: Did I like the school? Ok. Um, the teachers – our teachers
gave the tests but then I do remember there were a few white students that I
remember that it was said that they came from the U of I. They may have been
University of Illinois students that came to help to administer some of the
testing but it was our teachers that gave us the tests and they would test
on math, reading abilities, cognition – you know, could you understand
different sentences, there was testing on – questions – if you could figure
out certain questions…a lot of them were very tricky and the majority of the
testing was in the European vernacular. Um, you know African American people
– black people speak different than white folks do and a lot of the sentence
structure – because I used to be an English major – the sentence structure
and the usage of the English language was in the European Anglo-Saxon
vernacular. So when you would read these sentences sometimes using words
that black people didn’t use that often or had to look up in the dictionary
it just left you at a loss and for me I was a little more highly literate
because like I said, my mother read all the time and we had encyclopedias,
we had dictionaries, we had everything under the sun that we needed. And so
I think I was a little more literate than the average individual. And so
that was the type of testing that went on – even in the math because if you
place very high in math scores then once you got into the other schools then
you got into certain math classes that you didn’t see others in. So that was
the type of test.
CHARNISE: Uh huh. How did your mother explain the test to you and what did
she think about it?
MR. CLEMENTS: My mother never explained the testing to us, she just
explained that we were being tested at school for a reason and that if we
tested high, if we got good scores then we would get to go to the really
nice white schools. You see? That’s how it was given to us to give us the
motivation to the really nice white schools where we were told that they had
better books, they had better classrooms, the lunches and stuff will be a
lot better -which it was because in the black communities you got what you
got. The books were hand-me-down books and they didn’t have all of the
necessary educational resources that the white schools had. And when we got
over to the white school – especially Switzer – it was a whole new world. I
mean it had a little bit of everything – the books were brand new books, you
had pens and pencils whenever you needed them, you had plenty of paper…you
know, when in the black schools you’d be scrounging for stuff, your books
are old and tattered you know and they’d be out – I don’t know about
outdated but they’d be the old books and then when you go for classrooms for
PE – physical education – because president Kennedy then had a physical
fitness program that was nationally instituted so every child had to do
push-ups, sit-ups, different calisthenics and stuff and when you got to the
white schools you had an abundance of playground equipment – jump ropes – oh
you didn’t have no jump ropes at the black schools! You had all kinds of the
balls – the rubber balls, you had everything – bowling balls, you had
everything. So it was like night and day. So the parents explained to us if
we did well on these tests then we could get to go to some of the white
schools. So that was our motivation.
CHARNISE: Uh, did you feel comfortable when your mom was telling you stuff
like – what you just said. Like going to the white school, leaving your
friends at Washington…
MR. CLEMENTS: Um, yeah I felt comfortable because Mama was telling us and
your Mama’s not going to steer you wrong and she always wants what’s best
for you. So we knew that we could please our Mama but also we would be doing
better for ourselves because she wanted us to do much better than she was
able to do. Even though my mother worked for a cleaning – even though my
mother cleaned white folks’ houses – she would clean houses for professors
and wealthy people she did very well. She did well enough at least to buy
her own property and own her own house and raising five kids on her own so
my hat is certainly off to Olla Clements. So you know we knew that if she
worked so hard and was able to accomplish this then if we got the best of
education we would surpass her. And that was basically it so we were
comfortable with the direction that she gave us.
CHARNISE: How supportive was your mother of your education? What did she
expect from you?
MR. CLEMENTS: Well mom – you – I don’t know – you’re not of my generation –
sound just a little bit younger than me but during those times you know,
music helped the African American consciousness to deal with the atrocities
and the harsh realities of living in a prejudice world. And music was a
stimulant for us and it also helped us to get through a lot of turbulent
times. Music was played in my house, that was a relaxer, that was an
enjoyable thing, and during that time James Brown had – some of his songs
would come out, later on he said, “Say it loud I’m black and I’m proud,”
that made us feel good, Curtis Mayfield had songs about ‘keep on movin on
up’ or doing well or keep the faith and stuff like that – the Chambers
Brothers and stuff like that and he also – James Brown wrote a song called,
“Papa don’t take no mess.” But really a lot of the black mothers who were
raising families by themselves – ‘Mama didn’t take no mess,’ so Mama was a
very staunch advocate of education. We had to read, write, speak correctly
and we had to be on the up and up in terms of going to school and not
cutting up. If so, Mama would cut-up on us? You know what I mean?
CHARNISE: You attended – yes, I know what you mean. But um, you attend
Bethel AME Church?
MR. CLEMENTS: Yes.
CHARNISE: What role did the church play in your life? Did you have any
stories – can you share-
MR. CLEMENTS: What role did the – oh, ok. Uh the church played a significant
role in my life. Hold on one second, ok - just one quick second. That was my
wife. Yeah, so the church played perhaps the most – one of the most
significant roles in a young black male’s life. IN terms of a sense of
connection – spiritually – a sense of direction – morally – and even with
the AME Church, the AME Church stressed education. Um, Richard Alvin(?) was
a founder of the AME Church, which is a split off of one of the Christian
Churches and education was of utmost importance with the Bethel AME Church.
Not only were we taught the biblical passages and we of course we – the
youngsters had to read the bible – learn to read the bible – the passages
and then the young teenagers would teach the young kids about the bible
passages and of course we did our little stories and stuff and acting and
stuff and during the holidays and stuff like that. But it was a spiritual
foundation for the majority of Champaign-Urbana residents because nearly
everybody attended a church. It was a connective part of the community that
even though you worked hard or the father may be out there working hard you
know, digging ditches whatever because a lot of the black people – black men
had to take on the low jobs of course and the women would clean houses or
they might be in education, they may be a teacher or something like that –
you had black teachers back then also – you had a lot of professional people
back then, especially because this is the crossroads of the United States
where all the trains come and intersect from the south to the north, east,
and west. So you had an influx of people from all over – from St. Louis, New
York, everywhere and you had a lot of professional people. But it was the
church during the weekend on Sunday – sometimes Saturdays too but Sundays to
where everyone got to come to church, relax, rest, get some spiritual
information about Jesus and God and keep on keeping on and it’s not so bad
and now you can make it through another week and if you have problems the
church is there for you – you know that’s neither here nor there but it was
your connective base and it was extremely important for me. It was my
foundation even though I’m not a very religious person today, but I enjoy
all religions and I respect all religions but I did grow up in the AME
Church - and CME. My grandmother was CME, my grandfather was AME, I grew up
in Bethel AME Church.
CHARNISE: Wow. What was it like to be bussed? Who bussed with you?
MR. CLEMENTS: Who bussed?
CHARNISE: Yeah, who bussed with you?
MR. CLEMENTS: You mean to the schools? Or bussed when? What’s your question?
CHARNISE: Well when you went to Switzer School, what was it like?
MR. CLEMENTS: Oh what was it like at Switzer School? It was really
different.
CHARNISE: To be bussed.
MR. CLEMENTS: To be bussed it was a weird feeling because you had all the –
you had the black kids and we were the ones who were I guess you call some
of the chosen ones – you know, who were chosen to go to this white school
and um so we felt very special because here we were, we were leading the
school and those students and friends of ours who we played with that didn’t
get chosen. You know, we were sad for them because they weren’t getting to
come to the school - but then again you know as kids – kids, we’re cruel –
“Na-na-na-na-na – here we are, we get to be bussed to the white schools.” So
you felt special but then again it was an eerie kind of feeling because once
we got there and things began to settle in it was a feeling as though, “Wow,
it’s not like being at the other school. The teachers really don’t care for
us that much and they talk to us – some of us real different and then some
of us they talk to really harsh,” and that was not a good feeling. Because
some of the teachers, you’d be in a classroom and the teacher may like you
but may not like 14 or 10 or 12 other kids that were your same color. You
see? And you’d be the favored one because you were more light-skinned or you
had a more European look. You understand what I’m saying?
CHARNISE: Yes.
MR. CLEMENTS: And so you would feel bad – I would feel bad for those
students who didn’t look like me – those black students who didn’t look like
me or didn’t talk like I did or had a different disposition so that I did
not like. They were straight out prejudice at Lottie Switzer school. It
certainly was and it was a different feeling. But there were some teachers
that were very nice but then again you had your other teachers that – they
didn’t give a care about black kids being bussed there. They – it was their
first time experiencing teaching young black kids as well. This was –
integration was a first.
CHARNISE: Wow, um. How did your social life change as a result of the change
in schools?
MR. CLEMENTS: My social life changed tremendously because now being bussed
to an all white school I made new white friends now and when you’re young
kids you don’t – kids – youngsters don’t have the type of prejudice that
their parents have in their hearts because they haven’t experienced a lot of
things or they weren’t programmed towards a lot of prejudice. So we made new
white friends and that was a fun thing because you got to find out that
beneath it all we’re a lot the same. You know, you like to laugh, you like
to play, joke around, have a good time and then again you know, you have an
intellectual capacity as a youngster that you’re in your prime so your
thinking is at a light year speed compared to your parents and your white
friends who you’re now meeting – a lot of them you find out they are
certainly not as intelligent as you are but you’re led to believe that all
white kids are wonderful and bright and superstars and they have these
brilliant minds because you’re watching television, you see this “Leave It
to Beaver” you see the white families you know and they’re this fantastic
family with the smart little kids and everything and then you get into
school and into reality and you find out they just…got some really backward
white folks. You know or they’re not too smart. You know I don’t want to
call anybody dumb but you know…you find out that it ain’t all that it’s
cracked out to be – that you were taught. So a lot of those fears are broken
down so you’re able to make friends with the young white girls and white
boys. So it takes on a new reality and then again those of us who did make
friends with the white kids and stuff – of course we were called – some of
us were called Uncle Toms or whatever – not so much traitors. “Uncle Toms,
are you with the white boys?” “You like the white girls?” Whatever it may
be. It was that type of thing so it was like a double edge sword. But it was
a great transition in terms of my growth, consciously, because it later gave
me the feeling that - and the understanding that people are the same. So it
was a great transition for me - very positive for me.
CHARNISE: Yes. Wow um…how did Lottie Switzer compare academically to B.T.
Washington school?
MR. CLEMENTS: Um, I don’t even know if I could compare the two because when
you get into the politics of funding – Booker T. Washington was not funded
like Lottie Switzer was funded. The white schools – there was money pushed
into those schools – money for the best books, for the best facilities, for
the best maintenance, for the best teachers – the teachers would be
recruited from the University of Illinois, Southern Illinois University,
Chicago Circle Campus, they came from different other parts and of course
the better – some of the better teachers were at the Lottie Switzer School.
I can’t say – actually the better but the ones – well you know – they got
the cream of the crop. The black schools got the hand-me-down books you know
that were tattered and torn, of course the maintenance and everything was
not the best of upkeep, so you’re looking at an economic situation so
they’re kind of hard to compare. But in terms of the warmth and the
educational level, I would say it was just as good because you had a
segregated school where you had teachers who were concerned and cared about
the black students that were there because they produced black students. If
– when a black female teacher has black children, she is a black mother, she
has produced black children, and she has black children in her class and her
neighbors – she knows them – so she has more concern and care for these
children who live and grow up in her community – she cares about educating
them. When you go to the white school, it’s the same. You have the white
teachers, they produce white children, they’re more concerned and caring
about those that are closest to them or exactly like them. So comparing the
two together – the educational level I thought was very good at Booker T.
Washington and when I got over to Switzer the educational level was just as
good but I would – I could say if not better because of the facilities and
the exposure to books and the curriculu.
CHARNISE: What expectations did teachers, guardians and counselors have of
you at Lottie Switzers?
MR. CLEMENTS: Very low when I got there. For me in particular I think it was
a little different because I saw myself – I have a different personality and
I’m – I think as my mother raised us she raised us with a lot of love and
intellectual capacity so we were not raised to – although we were poor – we
didn’t know it. And my mother didn’t press the fact that we were poor. We
were not – we didn’t want for a lot of things. My mother worked hard and she
provided everything that we needed, for sure, but we were also raised with a
high intellectual capacity to know that we were extremely intelligent so she
would let us know that we were extremely intelligent and that there wasn’t
anything in life that we could not accomplish with hard work and with an
education. So in our minds, we just thought – we thought we were the shit.
Excuse my language – we thought we was in the bag of chips (?)
intellectually so when we went to school we had a different mind set. So it
was different for me – the teachers related to me in a much different way
than they did with somebody who maybe didn’t have as high self-esteem as I
might have. And so that’s the relationship I had with the teachers. Some of
them would treat me very well but then again you had many of those teachers
would just – would treat me really harsh because here you have this little
bright little black boy and he’s not only bright, he’s a little smart-aleck
and he’s talking back to us and he’s telling us things that we already know
but he may be telling us something that we don’t want to hear, you see? So
you got it from both ends. I did have difficulty with quite a few of the
teachers.
CHARNISE: Which year did you attend Centennial High School and what do you
remember about the high school?
MR. CLEMENTS: Uh, Centennial High School I attended in 9th, 10th, 11th, and
12th and Centennial High School was a great challenge. They did -
integration had already taken place and by the time I got there I think it
was probably like around – the racial make-up was predominantly white and
the white kids that lived in that area – their mothers and fathers owned
land. A lot of their mothers and fathers were farmers because they drove
tractors and they would talk about the farm life and we knew about the farm
life but our parents didn’t own big huge acres of land. Some of their
mothers and fathers would be business people – they may work downtown, they
may work for the city, or they may work for the University of Illinois. So
you had that and then you had the black kids who were bussed into Centennial
so there was a very high degree of racial uncomfortableness at the school.
It was like, “We don’t want you here and we’re not afraid of you. So this is
our school – you just happen to be coming here.” And so but it – even though
the – Centennial was a brand new – a fairly brand new school. It had
everything that the other schools did not have. It was like a model school.
It was larger, it had a larger football field, it had a better curriculum,
it had larger lockers, it had facilities that were outstanding compared to
the old structure of schools, which used to be in – they were factories.
They were gutted out businesses or they were buildings that were built in
like a factory business setting. That’s the way schools were built back
then. They were like – a lot of schools just happened to be factory
buildings and they were gutted out and then built into schools – classrooms.
So it’s like a little small square box, everything is in this factory
setting and Lottie – and Centennial was this brand new, beautiful,
differently built school and stuff. But the feeling there was that, “You
black kids, you don’t live here. We live here – you’re on the other side of
town. You guys just come here.” So there was a very high degree of racial
unrest there and of course I’m sure you heard about the different things
that went on there so…it was a difficult time for me then. Because as a
teenager you’re really coming into your spirits then and you’re a little
more outspoken, you’re a little more boisterous, and yet you know you have
to complete your high school degree.
CHARNISE: Did you participate in any extracurricular activities?
MR. CLEMENTS: Yes I was into football – I played football and I was fairly
successful. I was a running back so that made you a little popular. I was
too short for basketball – I wasn’t exactly too short for basketball but
that wasn’t my thing – I was a little bit shorter but I participated in
football and track.
CHARNISE: How did you get along with other students and teachers?
MR. CLEMENTS: I got along very well with the students and the teachers there
because we – and I think it was – I’d love for it to go down in history – at
Centennial we had a small group of African Americans – boys and girls – and
we had like a friendship with another group of <inaudible> boys and girls
and it was true – it was really true friendship. We hung with some of the
white kids, as friends, and they hung with us. We got a lot of flack from
some of the other students and stuff like that but we would participate in
activities outside of the school life with some of our white friends and
they would participate in activities with us as well. We might go to the
skate – we might meet up at the skating rink, which was right at the edge of
the University of Illinois, you know cause we liked to skate – we grew up
learning how to ice skate – or we might go to U of I to the track field or
something and hang out there for a while, many of us, during that time, we
would get together and we would throw these – kinda like young parties. We
cut-up then too – we wasn’t all innocent and everything! But we would get
together and everybody would put in like about $20 and so – white and blacks
– about 20 of us – 20 – not quite 30 – about 20 of us and we would buy – and
everybody would put in their money and we would buy food, you know somehow
we would get ahold of some liquor, a little bit of indo because back then
you know it was happenin too and so we would take that money and we would
buy our food, our drinks and smoke or whatever it was and we would buy all
of it and then we would all go – for the weekend we would go down to
Allerton Park and we would just hang out together and have a wonderful time,
you know what I’m saying? We’d have a great time and that happened to be one
of the happiest moments of my life because we had white friends and we would
go out and have a great time. And we weren’t thinking about, “Oh yeah well
you know – you’re white, you’re black,” it wasn’t about that. It was just
about living your life as a youngster in your last days of high school –
living your life to the fullest…so we had a great time then. I call us the
‘Allerton Park Buddies,’ there’s quite a few of us out there and they know
who they are too. <laughs> You know, both white students and black students
that hung at Centennial. Even though you had your hard redneck white folks
that just didn’t like you at all but that was a different element.
CHARNISE: What expectations did teachers, guardians, and counselors have of
you at Centennial?
MR. CLEMENTS: What expectations did they have of me at Centennial? Um, by
the time I got into high school at Centennial, you already had your records
so I was tested and shown to be a highly gifted student, of which I was in
the higher math classes and so that was pretty good. So you had your
previous report cards and stuff that came before you got there so a lot of
the teachers would know what your background was. And it depended on your
demeanor and your personality as to whether a teacher would connect with
you. So I think I got along rather well with mostly all of the teachers –
there were maybe one or two that I did not get along with but - the majority
of the teachers, they knew me as Olla Clements’ child and that I was – you
know that, “there was the Clements family and they were associated with the
university,” or that, “you know the Clements family – you know that this
young man was kinda smart and he wasn’t going to cut-up too much.” So I got
along well with most of the teachers there. There were just some of them
that did not care for African American males.
KIMBERLIE (Project Co-Director): I’m going to interrupt, um, this is
Kimberlie, hello. Um, we have to – we have an hour on this and then we have
to get a new number in so I’m just going to stop for a minute and I have to
pull up-
MR. CLEMENTS: : To be bussed to Centennial?
CHARNISE: Mhm. Mmm…yeah.
MR. CLEMENTS: Yeah? Um…it was fun because I had already been bussed before
so it was fun on the bus. You get to cut-up – in the morning – that’s when
you get your early morning cut-up. So you had fun riding on the bus and you
go into school – so this is your last little bit of freedom from walking out
your Mama’s door until you get to school where you’re going to have a lot of
rigid structure and education and stuff like that. So it was fun for me.
CHARNISE: When you got bussed was – did you have any friends around with
you? Was you all playing around when you all like – when you all got bussed?
Or was you all just sitting and watching, laughing and stuff?
MR. CLEMENTS: Were we-
CHARNISE: Like having fun or just-
MR. CLEMENTS: On the bus or what?
CHARNISE:: Yeah on the bus – just sitting there acting crazy or-
MR. CLEMENTS: Yeah we did like most kids. We acted crazy, we had a lot of
fun, we cut-up, somebody might say something and everybody’s in on it and
the bus driver would tell us chill out, cool down, stuff like that but we
didn’t get too much out of hand because the bus driver – it was usually a
guy that would drive the bus and so he didn’t take that much stuff. So you
know we’d cut-up just like everybody else. We had a lot of good fun on the
bus, I mean, we acted up – cause that’s the only time you can act up. You
can’t act up when you’re at home that much and then when you get to school
it’s the start of the school day so you just have fun on the bus because you
know you’re on your way. You just woke up in the morning and you’re on your
way to school. So we had fun just like you might have on your bus.
CHARNISE: Uh huh. Um, there was a riot at Centennial when you were there.
What do you remember about that?
MR. CLEMENTS: I remember that there was a group of white boys and there were
a couple – there were a few girls out there too – tough ones. And one day we
– on – when we pulled up to Centennial on the bus there was a group of
around – I’d say maybe around 25 white kids and they were waiting to whoop
our butts. They had bats, they had sticks, they had little chains, one or
two of them I remember seeing they had brass knuckles and whatever else they
had – they had weapons and they were waiting for us with the weapons in
their hands – waiting for the black kids to get off the bus cause they was
gonna whoop our…a-s-s. And so that was – that shocked everybody on the bus –
you know what I’m saying? That was a tremendous shock because we were caught
off-guard. It was like the Trojan Horse – you know what I’m saying? We
actually were caught off-guard because we didn’t think that was gonna go
down. But a lot of the white boys in that area – they were not afraid of
black kids and they were farmers and they was ready to jack us up. I don’t
remember what the situation was – I think something had happened the day
before with one of the young black girls. I think she got into a fight or
had – was arguing or something – something had happened with a white girl –
with a black girl and one of the white – I think one of the white girls or
something like that. And what happened, what came out of that was that the
white kids were pissed off at the black girl – she might have whooped some
butt – I don’t know – but anyhow they were mad and the general consensus
was, “Well, you know, F you all.” From the black kids we felt like, “Hey, F
you, we don’t even want to hear it.” And the white kids was like, “Yeah, so
and so, so and so, we ain’t afraid of you.” And that was the way it was. We
didn’t know that this was going to be the outcome but little did we know
when we pulled up on – at Centennial that morning it was a whole big group
of white kids with weapons in their hands. And the school knew about it but
they did not do anything about it initially. So when we – when that bus
driver saw those white boys with all them sticks and bats and stuff in their
hand, when he pulled around Centennial, I’m sure that he was extremely
shocked because we were too. I mean the bus just went ape-crazy. We was
like, “Oh no! I know this can’t be happenin!” A lot of people were scared
because everybody on the bus was not a fighter. You had people that were
mild-mannered, you had girls and stuff – they didn’t want to get involved in
all this stuff but they were very afraid because now here they had all these
white folks waiting out here to whoop our ass – excuse my language. And a
lot of us who were not afraid, who participated in sports and was not like
itchin for something it was like, “Oh wait a minute now I know you all ain’t
out here – let us off this bus.” Some of us were like that and then others
were just very scared. So when the bus driver pulled around there he didn’t
know what to do and he pulled up to Centennial and he didn’t open the doors
but the white boys came and they forced the doors open because it’s very
easy to get those doors open and so when they forced the doors open that’s –
they didn’t run into the bus to get us off the bus like down south because
they didn’t have no guns – nobody had any guns that we knew of. We didn’t
even think about guns back then but the black kids – we got off the bus
because we felt we were more vulnerable being on the bus cause then they
might have thrown rocks or bricks at the windows and stuff like that. So we
ran off – we got off the bus only into the waiting arms of white kids who
were swinging at us with bats and fists and stuff like that. It was not a
good – it wasn’t a good feeling. It was a very bad feeling to have to be
forced to fight and – but we did fight and we kicked some ass – I’m sorry to
say…but it was not good. A lot of people got hurt and the school knew about
it and it was very – Al Davis was the principal then and I think that Al
Davis had a very difficult situation on his hands but he allowed it to
begin. I don’t know what he could have done. Maybe he could have called the
police to say, “Hey, something’s going down in my school,” but then again he
didn’t have that great of a heart for black kids anyhow, but…it wasn’t a
very happy day.
CHARNISE: Um…yes um, so did the people that was scared, did they fight back
with you all?
MR. CLEMENTS: No, the people that were scared – some of them had to be –
they had to fight because they were grabbed and hit too. You know, back then
during that time, it wasn’t – white people had a lot of courage in terms of
whether they could put their hands on black people or not. So a lot of the
kids who got – who were getting off of the bus were swung at and hit and
grabbed, pushed down, maybe kicked – and it was like down south. You know,
it was like, “Hey, everybody gonna get a little tag on these niggas,” excuse
my language because that’s what they called us. So the people who were
scared were just trying to get out of the way. Those that didn’t wanna fight
– they were trying to just get off the bus and run away – run inside the
school or get away from that immediate area. Cause it was a big – it was a
big large area, concrete.
CHARNISE: Uh huh. What happened after the riot stopped? Like how long did it
last?
MR. CLEMENTS: Um, I’d say it probably lasted for maybe around 15 minutes or
less because we did fight for a long time. There was a lot of scuffling and
in terms of anybody coming out there to break it up, you didn’t have people
– you did not have teachers running out there, you know, trying to jump in
the middle, “Break it up, break it up.” They were – they – because you were
talking about teenagers; you’re talking about physically strong white males
who were in their prime who decided that they were going to kick some black
butt. You know? And they were not afraid so they were already on their
mission to do what they came out there to do. But then again you had black
students who were not afraid either and so it was a standoff. And like I
say, they lost and it was evident because even though they had their weapons
and everything it was something about – I don’t know whether it’s pride or
whether its – you just have that tenacity inside – it’s like, “Oh no, I know
you all didn’t come here to kick our butts, oh no…this is not going down,”
so it turned around on them and it was not a good thing but the feeling
afterwards – it took several weeks for the feeling to change amongst the
students because there was a lot of unrest days and days after this
happened.
KIMBERLIE: How did the school discipline the people involved and was it the
same discipline for white and black? And then how did the school talk about
it with the student population and among – yeah, with the student
population?
MR. CLEMENTS: There was a distinct difference in the discipline that was
given to white students and to black students. A lot of the black students
were expelled from school, some of the white students were expelled for just
a few days, some of them were not and it was like day and night because the
parents who were supporters of the school – you have to remember that a lot
of the parents supported the schools financially in terms of activities that
are going on and monies that are put into the different associations or the
football or whatever like this – so they already had a relationship with the
school and now Davis, the principal and these types of things. So it was
one-sided. A lot of the white students were not disciplined and there was
discipline primarily for a lot of the African American students who were
expelled and some were said to have been the cause of it.
KIMBERLIE: What did the school – I mean I understand the school was shut
down for a while and did they have any assemblies to talk about it? That
kinda thing…
11:03 Um, in terms of the school being shut down, no, I don’t remember the
school being shut down. I do remember us talking about it and in talking
about it we just basically talked about how we felt about it and what’s the
best thing to do to-
KIMBERLIE: Hello?
KIMBERLIE: Can you hear me?
MR. CLEMENTS: Yeah, I can hear you.
KIMBERLIE: Ok, great.
MR. CLEMENTS: Yeah so a lot of us were taken into the offices and talked to
individually so that they could get at the heart of the matter. So a lot of
us were brought into the principal’s office and the counselor’s office to
find out who did what – you know, who they were gonna place the blame on and
with that information then that would relate to who was gonna be expelled
from the school and those type of things. In terms of us talking about the
situation in the classroom setting, every class didn’t talk about it but
some of the classes that we would go to, the teachers would mention it, you
know, that, “We know we’ve had a situation in the school and we hope that
everything will be a little better and we’re not looking forward to anything
like this ever happening again.” It was that type of thing. It was just
brushed over real quickly. It was like a, “Ok it happened, we don’t ever
want it to happen again, we did our part as a teacher, we brought it to your
attention so…now let’s go back to class.” So it was that kinda thing.
CHARNISE: Ok. Looking back now, how did you assess your schooling here?
MR. CLEMENTS: How do I assess my schooling in Champaign-Urbana? I think that
I got one of the greatest educations that a youngster could get because I’ve
been to university, I’ve been to junior colleges, and I am a professional
and growing up and seeing the educational level that I got in Champaign,
Illinois, I think it was fantastic. Because you had the University of
Illinois there, because you had the African American family that had left
the south and had come up north for a better life, our parents – many of our
parents were educationally literate and they stressed the importance of
education and they kicked butt and took names. And so we were disciplined to
the point where education was of utmost importance for us and in those
schools I grabbed a lot of the information and I was directed in a lot of
fantastic ways educationally. I learned a hell of a lot. I’m so happy in
life – I’m extremely happy because of my educational level and my moral
upbringings and my intellectual level that I – that was all a connected
factor that I got from being raised in Champaign. I’m extremely happy.
CHARNISE: Uh…do you think it was important that Champaign took action?
MR. CLEMENTS: To ask me?
CHARNISE: Took action.
MR. CLEMENTS: Champaign to take action about what?
CHARNISE: Uh, yeah – uh…segregation.
MR. CLEMENTS: Um, it was mandatory at that time and of course
Champaign-Urbana, just like all other cities and different towns and stuff –
what happened is that the United States of America could no longer continue
into a segregated lifestyle – a segregated society and expect to prosper
economically or even socially. It had to integrate within its system some
sort of way – it had to integrate those African Americans whose parents and
fore parents were slaves. We had to be integrated into the system some
shape, form, or fashion because we built America and much of our African
knowledge, which was knowledge that spread around the world, which is not
talked about, was a part of the whole consciousness, the educational
consciousness. We were not just an afterthought, that we were slaves. No, we
had a rich heritage and a very highly intellectual heritage, a very
scientific heritage and this was all a part of the fabric of life and so
sooner or later we had to be integrated into the totally system of the
ruling minority. So I think it was not just good for Champaign – it was good
for the United States. If not we’d be in a much worser situation than we are
today.
CHARNISE: I wanted to thank you for taking your time out and to do an
interview with Ms. Kimberlie and myself.
MR. CLEMENTS: I thank you very much. I really enjoyed it and I love all
archiving situations and documentations because we have to rewrite history
and this is what we’re doing and I want to thank you very much for being a
part of it because you’re one of the pioneers, you know? 20-30 years down
the road you’ll be able to see this archive and it will be a part of the not
just local records, a part of the international records because with the
advent of the internet I’m sure this will be on the internet as well
so…you’re a pioneer young lady, and I want to thank you because you’re doing
what we were doing back then.
CHARNISE: Thank you.
KIMBERLIE: And thanks, Mr. Clements, for talking to us.
MR. CLEMENTS: And thank you so much for calling me and allowing me to be a
part of it. My sister turned me on to it and of course I said, “Right on,
right on,” and I’ve been looking forward to doing it. And I’m glad that
history is being rewritten.
KIMBERLIE: Oh good, well thank you. Thank you – and you’re a great
storyteller.
MR. CLEMENTS: Well thank you, thank you. I do lectures, so…
KIMBERLIE: You really did so – yeah well it shows and this is Charnise’s
first interview.
MR. CLEMENTS: Hey! Well Charnise, you’re bad, sister! That was very nice!
CHARNISE: Thank you.
MR. CLEMENTS: You had your questions in order. You came out and you asked
the questions. It was great - I really enjoyed it.
CHARNISE: Thank you.
MR. CLEMENTS: Yeah, mhm. So keep on keeping on and do your thing, sister.
CHARNISE: Ok.
MR. CLEMENTS: Write a book! Write a book about this!
CHARNISE: Ok.
KIMBERLIE: Alright. Bye, thanks.
CHARNISE: Bye-bye, thank you.
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