| Introduction
This interview was with Al Davis. Mr. Evans is a retired principal of
Centennial High School in Champaign, IL.
Yakera Barbee, an 8th grader at Franklin Middle School, conducted the
interview.. Yalera is one of 12 Franklin Middle School students and two
Central High School students (graduates of last year’s radio program)
working with WILL-AM 580 on an oral history project documenting the actual
desegregation of Champaign’s public elementary schools in 1968. The students
used parts of this interview for their 60-minute radio documentary, More
Than a Bus Ride: Desegregating Champaign Public Schools.
Yakera conducted the interview on April 19, 2005, at the WILL-AM 580 studio,
300 N. Goodwin Ave. in Urbana, IL. Mr. Davis is 61 years old at the time of
this interview.
YAKERA: Can you state your name for the record?
MR. DAVIS: I’m Al Davis.
YAKERA: When and where were you born?
MR. DAVIS: I was born in Ottawa, Illinois in 1934.
YAKERA: Was your town integrated or segregated?
MR. DAVIS: Um, it would have been segregated then.
YAKERA: Ok so your classes were segregated too?
MR. DAVIS: Uh, yeah. I only attended there through – halfway through the
fifth grade. My dad died and we moved to Streator, Illinois.
YAKERA: Um, were your teachers black or white?
MR. DAVIS: White.
YAKERA Did you have any African American friends?
MR. DAVIS: One.
YAKERA: And what was your relationship with jo,
MR. DAVIS: Um, that was in Streator, Illinois when I was in high school, and
he played in the band and I played in the band.
YAKERA: What did you like about teaching?
MR. DAVIS: About teaching?
YAKERA: Yeah.
MR. DAVIS: Um, well you know they often say that high school teachers, which
is what I was, like their subject, and elementary teachers like their
students. And there’s probably a lot of truth to that. When I started
teaching I taught at Edison, which at the time was a junior high, and junior
high students, as you know, can be pretty outgoing and friendly and so I got
a special place in my heart for working with students. And so when
Centennial High School opened and I went there, I carried over those
interests of working with students and – probably the most satisfying
experience was when I was trying to explain something and all of a sudden
you could see in a students face kind of a smile, and their eyes would light
up and they – “Ahhh!” and all of a sudden they understood. That was always a
very satisfying experience.
YAKERA: And what made you want to be a teacher?
MR. DAVIS: Well, I kind of entered it in a backwards way. I was here at the
university, I had spent three years in aeronautical engineering, and when I
– and in that field I didn’t take any aero-engineering courses until my
junior year, and I met a person who worked for MacDonald aircraft in St.
Louis and he had been working on a particular kind of a problem with an
airplane for twenty years. And I thought to myself, “I don’t want to work on
anything for twenty years.” So at the end of my junior I decided to go into
something else and so I thought, “Well what can I go into?” since I had all
of this mathematics and all of the physics, so I went into teaching, where I
majored in Math and minored in Physics. So it was not something that was
thought of early in my career but I might add, I recently had occasion to
speak and – to a group and commented that I had never had any regrets.
Education – teaching is a very personally satisfying experience.
YAKERA: What made you want to be a principal?
MR. DAVIS: Well again it was never something that I set out to do. When I
was in college, frequently people would come to me to talk about personal
problems and while I was doing graduate work then, teaching mathematics, I
thought to myself, well I wanted to get a Master’s degree and what might I
get it in? And I thought, “Well I’ll get it in counseling.” And so I got my
degree in counseling and worked as a counselor then at Centennial High
School, and as I worked with a larger group of students and became more
familiar with the total curriculum and the kind of personal problems that
youngsters have, I thought, “I could affect this more – in a larger way by
being in the administration.” So I went on and got another degree then in
administration and became – after I did that I became a dean, and then I was
an Assistant principal, and then I became principal. And once you start in
administration – in – at a high school level, that’s kind of a natural
sequence of how you would go about it.
YAKERA: In 1968 when desegregation was about to take place, how was it like
to live in Champaign?
MR. DAVIS: Well, very different than it is now. I – I don’t know that I’ll
be completely accurate on dates but my best recall is that when Centennial
opened, and we – the first year it opened was in 1967/1968, that was – there
was an African American family that lived over on Devonshire, a guy by the
name of Joe Smith who worked at the university. And they had a daughter who
attended Centennial High School, and he may have been the first or one of
the first African Americans who didn’t live on – what at that time was
called – the north end. And so Champaign - and even in years prior to that –
was a very very segregated community. African Americans by and large lived
in an area north of University and west of Neil street, and bordered by the
interstate on the north and the Illinois central tracks on the east. That
section was pretty much the section where all African Americans lived and so
that didn’t start to change until they really began the integration of the
schools. And that started when Centennial opened in 1967.
KIMBERLIE (project co-director): I’ll help you out. The 60s were a time of
civil rights movements across the country. What was it like here in
Champaign?
MR. DAVIS: Well in the – probably the – as in many places throughout the
United States, the <inaudible>, the basis for a lot of the activity,
marches, and reactions occurred on campus. But that also carried over into
the larger community. And so that it would affect what – how people dressed,
it would affect hair styles, it would affect attitudes, it would affect
values, it would affect reactions and I’m not sure whether you have
questions that will get to it but certainly at the high school level, when
this was occurring in the nation, the – there was not a lot of mixing
between African Americans and white students. There was some but not a lot
and I don’t want to get ahead of what – maybe some of your questions but it
was those kinds of problems that existed in the school that led to some
serious racial problems at Centennial. And maybe you have questions that
deal with that.
YAKERA: How did the school prepare African Americans for bussing?
MR. DAVIS: They didn’t. <laughs> The – let me talk a little bit about that
and then maybe that will raise some questions, or I don’t want to get ahead
of where you’re going though. But my sense – but I don’t honestly know this
– but my sense is that when the decision was made to build Centennial High
School, and I’m talking about a decision that would have been made at a
board level and the passing of bond referendums to pay for the building,
when that occurred the school was going to be built in southwest Champaign
and I was not at the school and of course I was just a beginning teacher so
I wasn’t that knowledgeable, but my sense was that there were some people –
I wouldn’t say all – but there were some people who kind of expected that to
be a high school just for those people in southwest Champaign. I don’t think
they ever – some people ever thought that that was going to be an integrated
school. And so there was a committee and there was a man by the name of
Harold Baker, who was – now a federal judge, or actually he’s retired, and
he served on a committee – maybe chaired it, I’m not sure – and made the
decisions that the schools were going to be integrated so that when a school
opened, then as a separate high school in 1967, there was really no
preparation, or at least none that I know of, made in terms of preparing the
students for being bussed to Centennial. Um, and as you can imagine at that
time, none of the parents had attended Centennial – obviously – there were
no brothers or sisters who had attended Centennial, so the students – the
African American students, all of whom lived in the north end, who were
going to attend Centennial, that – this was their first contact, their first
association with the school and I do not know of any arrangements or any
preparation that was made to help them and facilitate them coming to
Centennial.
YAKERA: How did the school prepare for the new students?
MR. DAVIS: Well, about the same way they prepared for bussing. They – again
I don’t remember anything that was done…now when they opened in ’67 I was in
counseling at the time. I wasn’t yet in administration so I wasn’t directly
involved but I don’t remember any special counseling, any group meetings,
any effort to go to churches or to the north end…perhaps something was done
when those students were at – in the junior high but I don’t know of
anything that was done.
YAKERA: Did you play a role in the desegregation plan?
MR. DAVIS: No, not really. That was done during the sixties and Judge Baker
and his committee made a report to the board and I’m not positive but I
would guess in 1967 – like in the spring or something of 1967 or the fall of
’66 – right before Centennial opened – and that is when the desegregation
actually took place as far as the schools were concerned.
YAKERA: What kinds of conversations were you having with your students?
MR. DAVIS: Do you mean at that time or when I was principal or what-
YAKERA: When the schools were integrated.
MR. DAVIS: Well, I don’t – first of all, the schools were integrated in 1967
and there were – and I was not in administration. I was a counselor at the
time. I do not recall any special kinds of meetings or communication that
took place with the students. And I had no particular role to play at all.
YAKERA: So um, cause – did you know of any students who were involved in
boycotting or anything like that?
MR. DAVIS: Um, well, I don’t – do you have questions or are you familiar
with some of the racial problems that occurred at Centennial High School? Do
you – are you familiar with that?
YAKERA: Um…
KIMBERLIE: Yeah, she’s going to get to that. She’s got – she’s just thinking
of questions as you tell what you’re telling now…
MR. DAVIS: Uh huh…ok…ok.
KIMBERLIE: Well let me ask – Yakera he said he was a counselor when the
school was integrated so what – so can you think of a question for him as a
counselor?
YAKERA: What kind of problems did the children come to you with?
MR. DAVIS: I really don’t remember that. I think it would probably be fair
to say that there were no special efforts made to ease the change of
buildings and schools for the children. I don’t remember any special
programs at all.
YAKERA: What do you remember about the riots?
MR. DAVIS: Um, well when that occurred I was an assistant principal and I
received a call from somebody – probably a teacher but I don’t remember who
would have been at the south end of the building where the busses
arrived…and this would have been only a couple minutes - a few minutes
before the busses with African American students arrived. And I received a
call from somebody – probably a teacher - saying that there were some white
students – um, there was a parking lot along the south end of the building
and there were some white students with – whatever – bats or boards or
clubs…some kind of quote “weapons,” and they were standing around their cars
or standing around their trucks and so that they were visible. And so when
that occurred I immediately called the police to report that and that only
took a moment and then I went downstairs and I – to the south end of the
building and noticed that there were no police cars there and so I put in a
second call to the police and then I went outside. And within that maybe two
or three minute period the busses arrived and fighting had already begun. So
– and at that time then we got a bunch of teachers out there to begin – to
break it up. But there was a lot of anger, hostility, some – and then
finally the police did arrive and some students were arrested and I’m trying
to remember and I’m not positive…I think that day mid-morning the decision
was made to close the school for the day. It turned out that the school was
closed for three days. But to close the school and the – all the students
were sent home.
YAKERA: Were the black and white students that were involved with the riots
disciplined the same?
MR. DAVIS: Oh I’m sure they were. Um, I don’t know that I recall enough of
that. I do know that both black and white students were suspended. I don’t
remember whether there were expulsions but there might have been but
certainly there were suspension and maybe there were some expulsions, I’m
not positive of that.
YAKERA: What percentages of-
KIMBERLIE: Ok, hold on. We need to ask more questions on the riots. Can you
think of some more? What’s missing?
YAKERA: Do you know why the riots occurred?
MR. DAVIS: Um, well yeah. The – it was the feeling that - among white
students - that African American students were not being disciplined. That
they were getting away with doing things and nothing was happening. And so
they were going to take matters into their own hands and try to resolve
whatever the problem was. So it was a sense, on the part of the white
students, that they weren’t being treated fairly and that African American
students were doing things and no disciplinary action was being taken. I
might give you a little background information…that – cause some of the
questions that you asked earlier would indicate that the school did very
little in terms of working with families, meeting with students, developing
programs that would facilitate the African American students attending
Centennial. I mean, cause frequently there’s a whole dynamic that exists
when children go to school - children who are coming to school, particularly
freshman. But in Centennial’s case it was – everybody was new. So they’ll
ask brothers and sisters about teachers, about the principals, about –
they’ll try to find out - or parents will know about the school. Well when
the African American students came to Centennial High School in 1967, they
didn’t know anything. There was no – they couldn’t talk to their parents,
they couldn’t talk to brothers or sisters or anybody. There’s – nobody knew
about Centennial because nobody had attended there. And so it was like a
vacuum and so they – when the students came they felt out of place because
there was – there were new associations, a lot of them had not attended
junior highs together and – I mean, those students, for example, who came
from Jefferson, I don’t honestly remember whether Jefferson had been
integrated at that point – it was in 1967 when we were but I’m not sure they
were before that. And so in any event, there was nothing done to make those
students feel welcome and to make those students – the African American
students feel a part of the school. And I don’t believe, in my judgment,
that there was enough effort made in working with homes and working with
parents after the students were there, after the school had opened to make
them feel welcome and to make them feel at home and feel comfortable there.
And so there wasn’t the kind of trust that should exist between students and
the school, parents and the school…and so that spirit of cooperation and
common purpose simply didn’t exist. And that was – existed when the school
opened in 1967/68. The kinds of things that were going on nationally and
within the city in terms of race relations and civil rights came over into
the school and students started acting in a similar way. And as I mentioned
earlier, a lot of the white students felt that African American students
were doing things that they weren’t being disciplined for and that’s why the
white students were going to take matters into their own hands and show the
African American students what should be. So that was the climate that
existed in the community and carried over into the school and that kind of
an atmosphere can’t exist very long without some physical violence taking
place, which it did at Centennial.
KIMBERLIE: Mr. Davis, can you give Yakera an example of a story? You said
the national movement was reflected in the local community and the schools,
tell us a story that reflects that carry-over. Tell her a story…
MR. DAVIS: Yeah. Um, I – you know, Yakera, I don’t recall specific
individuals and experiences that would be of a narrative story that would
illustrate what I’m trying to describe. What I’m trying to describe is kind
of a big picture but I really am not able to break that down into some
specific example.
YAKERA: What were the college prep classes?
MR. DAVIS: What were they? Well at the time, we didn’t have what now exists
and they’re called ‘advanced placement classes.’ College prep classes used
to be usually a sequence of Math and English and Foreign Language and
Science courses that would prepare a student for college. And so a lot of
the students would take four years of Math, or four years – three or four
years of Math, three or four years of Science…and so that at the upper-level
students would be taking – we didn’t actually have calculus at that time but
they would be taking trigonometry. They’d have physics, we had courses like
microbiology and students, depending on what they were going to do in
college, would take either two or four years of a Foreign Language. But it
was those kinds of sequences in Math, Science, English, Social Studies, and
Foreign Language that students could go into college and primarily take.
YAKERA: What percentages of African American students were taken to higher
level classes?
MR. DAVIS: I really don’t know that. Certainly I would say not very many - I
mean, a very small percentage. I can almost remember some of the African
American students who were – who really excelled. I wouldn’t want to be held
to this statistic but probably by 1975 – in other words the school had
already been open a few years and there had been very very few African
Americans who graduated in the upper half of their class. There were some
but not many. And as a result then they were not in college prep classes and
the advanced classes. And so those were some of the things that had to
change that started taking place when I took over.
YAKERA:: Why do you think there weren’t that many African Americans in the
higher classes?
MR. DAVIS: Um, well I think a variety of reasons. I – when - you have to
remember that segregation that existed in the Champaign schools prior to
1967 was a time when African Americans were participating in segregated
schools. And segregation carries a pretty heavy price and it affects
aspirations, what people want to do, what they feel they can do, and so all
of the things that - both in terms of not only taking courses but more
importantly feeling that going to college, taking advanced level courses was
a thing to do - that simply didn’t exist in Champaign at that time and as a
result students came to Centennial and they were not prepared in terms of
having taken the courses that would have prepared them for a college bound
track and they had not been encouraged and motivated to take those kinds of
courses and to pursue careers that would require a college education.
YAKERA: What was your relationship with African American teachers?
MR. DAVIS: Well as principal, one of the things that I wanted to do was to
bring in diversity into the school. The very first thing that I did was to
bring a person – an African American – into administration. Prior to that
there had been none in administration at Centennial and frankly - I’m not
positive of this but I don’t believe there had been any at what is now
Central High School. And so it was my feeling that bringing in role models
and individuals that students could identify with was pretty important. And
so there was a person – Alan Griggs – who was my assistant principal and he
was one of the first persons I hired. And so I always – with the teachers
and in the community probably the thing that was essential to bridge the gap
of no contact between the school and the African American community – I had
to start doing some things then that would build the confidence, build the
trust, build the relationship with the African American community. And that
included bringing in African American teachers.
YAKERA: How do you think the other teachers felt when you brought in African
American teachers?
MR. DAVIS: Well I think for the most part most teachers want to see all of
their students succeed and what I always wanted to guard against was
creating an atmosphere that it was the African American teachers’
responsibility to work with African American students to the exception of
the total faculty working with African American students. So I wanted all of
the teachers to feel that they had a responsibility to work with African
American students and not simply the African American teachers having that
responsibility. So I worked toward a sense that we were going to have
diversity within the faculty and the expectation that everybody would work
together. And in like in an English department or a Math department or you
have a Social Studies department or where you have a large number of
teachers at a high school level – you might have fifteen, sixteen, seventeen
teachers in a department, what I would try to do is to make sure that I
would have African American, I would have men and women, I would have older
and younger so that – cause different people brought different points of
view and so I believe that in the large measure – there were probably
exceptions – but in the large measure the white teachers accepted and
welcomed African American faculty.
YAKERA: In your opinion was desegregation good or not?
MR. DAVIS: Oh yeah. <laughs> Was desegregation good? Oh yeah. It was – I
mean, having lived during that period it’s inconceivable that this was only
beginning in 1967. I mean, to think that people were – African American were
moving to the community and were not free to live where they wanted – that’s
crazy. If you – you had asked the question just a little while ago about why
some of the African American students weren’t taking college prep courses
and as I explained to you then the – you need the encouragement and the
expectation that students can pursue careers that require college education.
And when you have an integrated school, people grow up being used to living
in a diverse community and that’s important. I mean, if you were to look at
what things were like then – say 1960 or 65 and look at them now in 2000 and
2005 it’s just a world of difference. So yeah it was a very good thing.
YAKERA: What do you think was the purpose of desegregation?
MR. DAVIS: Well, what I just said. It was to assure that – it’s hard to
legislate attitudes and values and sometimes people have fears of the
unknown. And so if people grow up not seeing special ed students or not
seeing students of a different race or not being familiar with people of
different religions, then they grow up with prejudices, biases, fears…and so
the benefit then, the byproduct of integrating the schools is that children
grow up being used to – I presume that you would have – you’ve had white
students in your classes all the time that you’ve been in school and
certainly have had associations with white students and I would presume
friends with white students. And vice versa – white students who know you
would have you as a friend. But if that hadn’t taken place in an integrated
school then you would grow up with – still having fears of each other and
that’s very bad.
YAKERA: Did you ever hear another teacher say anything mean to an African
American student?
MR. DAVIS: Well what do you mean by mean? I don’t know what do you mean by
mean? Do you mean demeaning? Putting them down? No, I wouldn’t say
intentionally. I wouldn’t want to say that it’s never occurred and sometimes
people say things to motivate, to encourage, to get people working harder
and they don’t mean it to be offensive. But if a person is hurt by what
another person has said, then it’s offensive. So I wouldn’t be a bit
surprised that day in and day out teachers wouldn’t have said things to
students that would have been very very hurtful, embarrassing - but I’m not
sure that it was always for that – with that intent.
YAKERA: And this is my last question. How do you think you were perceived by
African American students?
MR. DAVIS: Good. Um, let me tell you a little bit about because you didn’t
get to I think some of the things that I think are really important. Because
what of course you’re working on and what you are studying is what took
place in the mid 60s to early 70s and that’s the frame you’re looking at,
the picture that you’re looking at. What really became significant and
really became something that I was involved in is what took place after
that. And what took place after that is changing the school so that students
felt at ease, parents had a trust of the school and so I had to do – started
doing a lot of things. One is that I hired – began the process of hiring
African Americans. Um, and if you want to go into education I would
encourage you because you’ll get a job right away and – because the problem
that still exists is that there are so many opportunities for African
Americans in all kinds of fields that we aren’t getting enough African
Americans in edu – pursing education in college. Um, but not only did I want
to hire then African American but I started going to meetings in homes – I
would have coffees in homes – in African American homes. I’d find a parent
and say why don’t you invite some of your neighbors, some of your friends
who have children at Centennial and I’ll come out, meet with them, talk with
them. And so I would go out in the evening when people are at home. I would
go out to Burch Village, which doesn’t even exist anymore, but I would go
over to Burch Village and talk to parents there. I would go to churches on
quote the ‘north end’ and on Sunday. And all was this was done because it
had to build – if you get people together, and that’s what integration is
about, if you get people together, then if your mama is mad about something
she’ll get on the phone and call me – whether its about me, about a teacher,
about another student – but when there’s trust and feeling comfortable with
people then they work together. And what I had to do – and I did it – you
know, you have to keep in mind that a principal sets a climate and an
expectation for the school. But 100 people work there and so it’s not
something that the principal does alone. It’s something that’s done by at
least most of the 100 people who work there. And so we would try to get
courses, we would try to get programs that would encourage African Americans
into pursuing college careers. When I left Centennial High School was
graduating – I don’t remember precisely – but something 90% or more of the
African Americans were graduating from high school. Centennial consistently
led – was either first or one of the top schools – high schools south of
I-80 – I-80 is the Interstate 80 and north of that is primarily the suburbs
and Chicago. South of I-80 we were consistently the top school that had
students who excelled in what are called ‘college board exams.’ It’s a
particular kind of a testing program that students take when they’re getting
ready to go to college. And so we had then, students who were – who really
excelled and did well academically. And so we needed to set a climate that
encouraged students to take courses, encouraged students to stay in school,
created programs, because you know you can only do so much school work.
There are other activities in the school and it has to be something more
than just basketball. We need programs. The kind of thing that you’re doing
right now didn’t even exist. Make sure you thank Kimberlie that you have a
program for something like this so that you can get some experiences because
believe me it’s very very helpful for you in the long run. Now you may not
think so now but believe me, it really is. So those were the kinds of
activities that we had to develop and encourage students to become involved
in - then still at that time in the mid 70s, students lived by and large in
north Champaign. There was some gradual integration to the south, but not a
lot. There was some, but not a lot. And so then we needed to get
transportation. We had to find a way to get students home. If they were
going to stay after school for a school activity we had to get students
home. And so it was a combination then of working with – bringing in
faculty, working in with the community – to this day the Urban League – it
has a dinner that’s coming up at the end of the month some time. I still go
to that because it’s working with those organizations that I did as a
principal that helped develop confidence and trust of the school in the
community. And when I say that I mean particularly among African American
students and African American parents. So there were a number of things and
I mean, we went from a school where black students did not feel welcome,
were by and large in the bottom of their class, were not taking college prep
courses, and I can go on and on, to a school where over 90% of African
Americans were graduating, they were taking college bound courses, they
excelled in the college board exams…so it was quite a transition.
KIMBERLIE: Can you tell her – so did these changes happen because you then
as principal could make them happen where as an assistant principal you
weren’t able to do it or?
MR. DAVIS: Yeah you know, the – there’s a dynamic in the school and in the
school community…and so that the Board of Education makes a difference, the
superintendent makes a difference, the principal makes a difference, the
classroom teacher makes a difference. All of those things so sometimes a
classroom teacher would like to do something but they’re – they don’t get
the support that they need from the principal; the principal wants to do
something – they don’t get the support that they need from the
superintendent. And so that there was – I don’t know if it even exists
anymore. There was a program that used to be called EMH – Educationally
Mentally Handicapped – EMH, ok? Maybe it still exists. And it’s for students
who had really low low ability. The district wanted to have that program
come to Centennial High School and the person who was the principal at that
time – who was before me – fought it and fought it and fought it – didn’t
want those kids in the school. Well you see, that sets a climate and that
becomes pervasive because everybody finds out about it. Kids find out about
it, parents find out about it, faculty find out about it, and it creates a
climate that certain people aren’t wanted in the school. And I would suggest
to you, in my opinion, that that’s the climate that existed when Centennial
High School opened, ok? And so there’s only so much an assistant principal,
only so much teachers can do - only so much a principal can do if they don’t
have the support of the superintendent. I was fortunate. There was a guy by
the name of Dr. Burner – Marshall Burner who was very supportive of
integration and he – that helped me do the things that I wanted to do in the
school. That simply wasn’t happening before that. But I’ll tell you what the
fundamental thing that a person has to believe in is that everybody can
learn. I had – I mean I had more than one but I can remember a teacher –
happened to be an African American teacher who taught Math. And she would
say, “By the first of October I know who’s going to fail in June.” And that
expectation led to failure because the support, the encouragement that ought
to take place for a youngster wasn’t taking place. So that fortunately I got
rid of that person. But you have to believe, and to this day I do, that
everybody can learn. Everybody can be successful academically.
KIMBERLIE: Perfect.
YAKERA: How about that?
KIMBERLIE: Alright. Thank you.
MR. DAVIS: Alright!
KIMBERLIE: Ok so, we’ll see all of you tomorrow. Yakera will be at the
lunch. Are you coming to the lunch tomorrow?
Oh that’s right! Yakera – ok.
KIMBERLIE: Thank you for all of this.
MR. DAVIS: Well that was always – I mean that must have been so long ago
that-
KIMBERLIE: It’s hard to remember, isn’t it?
MR. DAVIS: Yeah it really is.
END
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